Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Will the sterillite 66 qt. rack model #1758 rack that vision makes work for adult green trees the dims are 23 x 16 x 12 thanks.

For adults the 23 X 16 X 12 sounds a little small. Minimum size for adults is considered 24 X 24 X 24. I keep mine in 30 X 24 X 24 and am going to go larger (36 long) when I custom build my enclosures. I think they need more room in order to stay more active and healthy.
-----
4.5~Cornsnakes
1.2.2~Green tree python
1.0~ATB
Dogs, cats, horses....
www.franclycac.com

It'll work but I really wouldn't recommend racks for arboreal snakes. Vision makes really good racks but you should still use UVB on the tree pythons and this makes it hard and not cost-effective to do. Vision makes good cages and if you need a good arboreal cage I have one that's more suitable and cost-effective. Let me know if you're local; I live in South Florida.

Just wondering why you say UVB is something chondros need? It's not something most nocturnal animals need.

Thanks
Brandon Osborne

I also wonder about that. That said, I've been thinking about providing low level UVA/B for my chondros as even though they are nocturnal, they surely get at least filtered sun up in the tree tops where a lot of them perch. I can't imagine it would be bad for them as long as it's not super high UV levels and that it's on a timed cycle.
-----
4.5~Cornsnakes
1.2.2~Green tree python
1.0~ATB
Dogs, cats, horses....
www.franclycac.com

The only thing I keep that doesn't have UV, is ball pythons. Everything else gets it, even leopard geckos. Ya they're nocturnal, but everything does better with UV. You don't need it to keep most things alive, but you also won't have the most healthy animals in the world without it. Chondros are nocturnal but they're out during the day, so they should be cared for like diurnal animals and have uv. Ball pythons aren't out during the day and it's not necessary for them to have uv, but everything in the wild gets natural sun, so everything in captivity will fair better with it. It makes the animals look better too.

Not attacking you, but what evidence proves so? I have chondros that are in their 13th year and they are healthy as any. I know folks that have kept leopard geckos in racks and have produced THOUSANDS of eggs with this method. I have also produced chondros successfully in a rack setup.

How are your lights installed? Is there a cover over the light?....through plastic or glass? Again, I mean no offense, I just want to know the facts. In my opinion, the only reason most keep UVA/B on their animals is due to more accurate color representation. Filtered light is not the same as direct sunlight.

Brandon Osborne

Animals with uv live longer...It's provides vitamin d, needed to absorb calcium. The more vitamin d you get the more calcium you can absorb. When the animals are older it may not be as important (with pythons) but your babies will grow faster and you will have a lower mortality rate if you give UV. There's this HUGE myth that nocturnal animals don't "need" UV, but in the wild the sun's there, so it's common sense to put "sun" there.

Animals that look healthier are healthier. The chondros that I've worked with that have been kept under UV look perfectly clean, and not to say yours are unhealthy, but they would look cleaner if they had UV.

You are right though, most people put uv on their animals to make them get better color, but that doesn't mean it's the only benefit to having UV.

I wasn't aware that snakes needed UVA/UVB to process vitamin D and calcium. Leopard geckos don't even need it. I'm not trying to argue with you, but calling someone's animals "not as clean" just because they don't use broad spectrum lighting is silly.....IMHO. Again, I would love to see some solid evidence to back up your assumption.

Which ones do you think need the most "cleaning up"? Please note all of the yearlings and sub-adults are kept in tubs and don't see any light other than what's offered from overhead room lighting......two, single light bulbs from the ceiling fans. Some of these animals are over 10 years old but ages range from one year to 13 years.

















thanks
Brandon Osborne

Those snakes look sweet. Put one on UV for a year and compare. That's your evidence.

Ok. I'll take you up on that challenge. See you here in a year.lol.

Brandon Osborne

Both of my clutches from last year have grown at record rates. I have animals that weighed 176 grams at only 10 months old. Average weights are normally around 100-120 grams at 12 months......but would still love to see evidence that UV makes them grow faster.

Thanks
Brandon Osborne

I'd like to see evidence that they don't need it...

Have you also taken into account that larger females produce larger babies? Larger babies can get started on larger meals and thus grow faster? Are you comparing US captive bred animals to captive farmed animals? Are the animals you compare from the same generation of captive borns? Have you read any leopard gecko studies on uvb light and growth? longevity?

I'm not quite sure what you are getting at. I have both import and CBB animals. ALL of my CBB animals are in much better shape than my imports. Evidence that show they don't need it????? I think I pretty much did that. I have a couple of very large females that produce large clutches. My yearlings are from one of these females and as I stated, they are all not quite 11 months old and are WELL beyon normal yearling size (80-100 grams vs. 140-180 grams). I only asked for solid proof they need UV in order to grow "larger" and "healthier". I'm not trying to be an a$$ about this. I really am interested in any studies you might have info on. If it really helps, I'll install UV in all of my cages asap.

Thanks
Brandon Osborne

All my yearlings but one have been over 100 grams. Is that not a normal weight. My one Biak that I know is CBB is the smallest of my 5. Under 60 grams and it will be a year in May.
-----
4.5~Cornsnakes
1.2.2~Green tree python
1.0~ATB
Dogs, cats, horses....
www.franclycac.com

Meg, I think normal weight for a yearling is around 80-100 grams. Some of my animals were at and over 130 grams at 8 months old. I was only trying to prove the point that UV is not needed to "make them grow". lol. It depends on many things.

Thanks
Brandon Osborne

I got that part, I was just thinking that this little Biak was small for it's age is all. My other's were all well over 100 grams at a year old and this one lags. It feeds every week and never refuses yet it's small. This is the same animal that I have trouble getting good sheds on and who stays dull and in blue up until it does attempt to shed. Active and seems healthy otherwise...I have young cornsnakes that are bigger than him!
-----
4.5~Cornsnakes
1.2.2~Green tree python
1.0~ATB
Dogs, cats, horses....
www.franclycac.com

It must be something with him. Some animals just don't grow. I have a near 2 year old female kingsnake that eats several pinks at a time every week and is barely 18". All of my others are of appropriate size.

Brandon Osborne

Wow! I have one female cornsnake that's pretty small at almost 4 yrs. old. Maybe 3 ft. long and very slender but she does have something going on with her. Rib anomalies in several areas so I'm wondering if there is a reason for her smaller size. Interesting though....
-----
4.5~Cornsnakes
1.2.2~Green tree python
1.0~ATB
Dogs, cats, horses....
www.franclycac.com

Alright so they don't "need" it, but you also don't "need" to eat a balanced diet either. You can eat fast foods and tv dinners and still live a long life, but those who eat healthier and go beyond what they "need" to sustain life will look better at old age. You can have healthy snakes without UV. Most python keepers do have healthy snakes despite not having it, but UV is good, and nocturnal or not if a snake has uv it will do better, because having UV is better than not having UV. There's no denying that. There are studies in leopard geckos that when given full spectrum lighting, they grow faster. There's a section on that in almost every leopard gecko book. I'd say that's enough evidence, seeing that if we studied that in pythons it would take too long haha.

so pretty much every statement you made in this post was your speculation with no facts at all? You say these snakes are out during the day which is true. They are coiled up on a branch under the top of the canopy where all the light hitting them is filtered thus getting rid of a very high percentage of UV if not all of it.

I don't keep chondros but no a very good breeder that produces them and has for the last decade, it's amazing that he has since none of his chondros have UV lights, oh yea he has one female chondro that is 23yrs old and still produces clutches every other year. Now that's proof that you don't need UV.
-----
Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!