Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know this guy who says silk worms are the best protein for lizards. There is a reptile supply place that sells them but I have not read anything saying if it is safe or not for bearded dragons. Any thoughts on this?
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----ALICIA ROTH----

silkworms are perfectly safe for bearded dragons. Checking a few back posts in this forum would have brought up many mentions of silkworms as a great staple insect instead of crickets, for bearded dragons.
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PHLdyPayne

OH, I guess I should have searched through the forums before I posted. I had looked in some of my books but there was no mention of them. I have spent some time after I posted that question doing some online research and found a lot more info on them, but I still like to hear others thoughts on the subject.
Have you ever given any to your beardies? If so do they seem to like them more than other worms such as Phoenix Worms?
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----ALICIA ROTH----

I keep silkworms pretty much full time. They are a little higher maintenance than crickets that I keep too. But much easier to put food in a dish when I'm in a hurry. The dragons really like them. The dragons like Phoenix worms but they are too small to be much of a meal for adult dragons. My dragons leave a lot of undigested parts from Phoenix worms so I don't feed them anymore.

I have about 50 cocoons working now and going to see if I can get my own silkworm eggs.

I just switched my adult to them, as my vet did not want him to have crickets anymore. I have never seen him so excited! He loves them - far more than the crickets. I also got butterworms for him and he loves them as well. He is one happy boy! I have not tried the phoenix worms yet. I don't have the care for the silkworms down yet, but once I do it will be easy going (no more yucky, noisy crickets). The butterworms are easy (they just go in the fridge).

BDlvr Thanks for your in put, I have found that if I am feeding small insects such as wax worms I also give crickets later that day or a pinky.

2doxies, thank you also for your in put. I guess I will be buying some silk worms! I hope mine love them as much as yours.
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----ALICIA ROTH----

2 doxies---WHy would a vet say not to feed crix? As that is what IS HIGHLY recommend as a staple for beardies before anything else is. Doesn't make any sense and i would get a new vet!

Silkies are fine as a staple. Butterworms, phoenix, waxwomrs, pinkies, and mealies, all should ONLY BE TREATS for a beardie and should never be feed more then once a month--especially pinkies. They are very HIGH in FAT and so are Waxworms.

Stick with crix or silkies for a staple nothing else!

The debate over feeding pinkies or not fascinates me, when I first herd that they may be bad I quit feeding with them, but then I have read that female especially should have them once a week. I wonder if there will ever be a clear but answer to that question.
I know my girls love them and my male not so much.
I would however like to know where you read that they should not have pinkies and wax worms. I am always willing to read and compare with other books to try and make the best choices.
Thank you for your thoughts.
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----ALICIA ROTH----

I think it's that pinky mice and wax worms are high in fat. I give both mine pinkie and fuzzy mice with no problems. New born pinky mice are about the same size as adult crickets. I give both my beardies pinky mice everytime my mice have a litter and have no ill effects. I have completely cut crickets out as a staple because I hate them, they stink, noisy and don't live long enough. As as staple I do Superworms, silkworms, hornworms(very juicy), and roaches (Orange spotted). I just dust the worms a little more than crickets. But if I'm in a rush I can just plop some in a bowl and go. The roaches I got can't fly or climb, yay...
I will never go back to crickets as a staple.

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1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Rex- "normal" orange fire)
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Glutany- German Giant Mix)
0.1.0 Okeetee Corn (Okatee)
1.1.0 Spotted Python (Hotdog and Shoelace)

Leolady- Actually the vet is very good and has 20 years in the field. He only works with reptiles, birds and other exotic pets. I haven't posted in awhile, but previously I posted about Napoleon having problems - pooping once every 2 weeks. The first reptile vet I went to went through 3 fecal samples before finally coming up with hookworms. She prescribed a very large dose of Panacur (way too much). People on this forum were very concerned and urged me to get a second opinion. Second opinion with this vet...correct meds., my boy is up and moving, pooping every other day. The vet prefers silkworms and roaches. He is concerned with what the crickets may or may not have been bringing with them to my beardies table. Anyway...I have read several other posts on this forum of people who are feeding other staples instead of crickets. So I don't think it is advice that is that far off base or harmful. Thank you for your concern!

Every website and caresheet out their says they are fine to feed on OCCASION. Not as a staple and surely not everyweek. They are very very HIGH in FAT and are very unhealthy for your beardie. If your breeding then yes it's a good idea to feed your beardie a pinky as it will help her out, not harm her. Feeding a pinky once a week or more will intend give you an obeste beardie and a shortened lifespan. Just google it and you will find all the info on how not to feed pinkies more then 1 a month, if needed.

Sorry but whining about how crickets smell is just childish. Stick them in a room where you are not and you could always keep the maintance up to par to keep them from smelling bad. I have a rubbermaid container in my BEDROOM in which i sleep with my 2000 crix and they don't ever smell as long as you clean them , feed them and care for them as well. If you are complainng about what you need to feed something then you should not have that particular herp or animal in anyways.

Sometimes yuo need to stop angd think is this best for me or best for my herp? Alot of people do thing just to benefit them and not the herp. I have been hearing alot more of this to, many lazy people just want things simple for them,qoute " I am in a hurry and i can just drop these in instead" Right and how healthy is that for your beardie. YOu are not taking proper time or care of your herp. They should be taken care of just like children are, but hey some people can't do that right either and let their kids do whatever...No wonder our society is failing miserably!

It's good to have a variety, just don't over load it like many tend to do!

I NEVER said you couldn't feed them just saying not like you are. It's not healthy for your herp!

Roaches are a great staple. No downside, best meat to exoskeleton ratio. The high Phosphorus to Calcium ratio of crickets makes them really not as great as you claim. The reason why all the care sheets list crickets is because they are cheap and readily available locally. Phoenix worms and butterworms are also not high in fat. My only issue with butterworms is that they are irradiated to prevent them from turning into beetles and eating our crops. Phoenix worms are too small in my opinion and there is often undigested parts.

I wasn't talking about roaches, I personally would never use them as if some were to get out like crickets you would end up with a roach infested house, which i am not in a hurry to have and i am sure noone else would either. I know some people only get so many roaches and don't have this problem.

I also have no problem with butterworms, Phoenix worms yes leaves undigested parts and i am not to sure how good that can be in the end either, so i stay clear of them as well.

The only i do have a problem with is feeding VERY HIGH in fat foods everyday.(Pinkies, Waxies) That is unhealthy, it's like eating McDonald's everyday and wondering why you gained 250lbs. LOL

The roaches we feed are not able to infest your house. Different species.

There ya go then, use roaches instead of crickets. Just not waxies or pinkies. That's my point.

I disagree with not feeding pink and fuzzy mice and here are my reasons.
First of all my vet who is a very good vet said that it is healthy for the bearded dragons, especially the females to eat a pinky a week, it helps their metabolism stay active. She has been a vet specializing in Bearded dragons and iguanas for 14 years and has also had them as pets and has fed them a diet similar to the one I feed and her oldest bearded dragon is now 11 years old and very healthy. We discussed the debate of feeding them or not feeding them pinkies. She said it is fine ether way as long as you are gut loading all of the other live feeders with high quality rodent food, baby cereal, fish food flakes and oranges, and supplementing with a good quality calcium, preferably liquid. Fat in moderation is a very important part of any carnavor/herbivore diet.
Also I think that we can all agree that Robert Mailloux, and Susan Donoghue V.M.D. are a great source of information. Robert Mailloux, has been caring for and breading beardies very successfully for many many years. Susan Donoghue V.M.D. is a very respected authority on reptile nutrition and has had ongoing research on the effects of diet on bearded dragons. They co-authored a book with other experts of bearded dragons named "The Bearded Dragon Manual" in this book they go into great discussion on the diets of bearded dragons. I am going to give a quote from that book.
" In captivity, adults also feed on juvenile (pink to fuzzy) mice. These can be a useful part of a varied diet for larger dragons, providing nutrients such as calcium and many vitamins and trace minerals that are not readily available from invertebrates and salads." pg 45 of the bearded dragon manual
I also have another book that also states that pinky & fuzzy mice are not harmful to dragons and even suggest feeding pregnant beardies them 2 to 3 times a week. Non pregnant and male beardies once a week. If you would like I can find the quote for you on that as well.

I know that a lot of care sheets may say not to feed them that often but I would be interested to see who authored those care sheets and what their experience in the field has been.

If you have a book or care sheet that disputes what I have written please share with me, as I said I am always looking, reading and comparing information on bearded dragons to insure I am giving the best care possible. That is one of the main reasons as to why I joined this forum.
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----ALICIA ROTH----

I wrote carnavor/herbivore
but I meant carnivore/omnivore
Sorry for the confusion.
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----ALICIA ROTH----

well maybe if you people exercise your dragons you won't have to worry about weight. I let mine out everyday to roam the house and once a week of swimming and no ill effects.
So like with people if you eat fat foods and sit on your butt all dang day then yes you will get fat!
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1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Rex- "normal" orange fire)
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Glutany- German Giant Mix)
0.1.0 Okeetee Corn (Okatee)
1.1.0 Spotted Python (Hotdog and Shoelace)

True!
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----ALICIA ROTH----