Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So they are now saying walking the shoulder to hunt "nongame animals" is a "safety issue".
Yet trapping raptors on the roadside is not a safety issue???

And what does this mean - "can be... detrimental to populations of animals needed for the survival of other species".

What "other species" depend on roadside populations of animals for their survival? Is the road shoulder now considered critical habitat? And if so how are herpers footprints any different from raptors collecters footprints.

BILL ANALYSIS

C.S.H.B. 2414

By: Isett, Carl

Culture, Recreation, & Tourism

Committee Report (Substituted)

BACKGROUND AND PURPOSE

Current law allows for the hunting of non-game species on a public road or right of way provided they are on foot and not in a vehicle. This can be a safety issue as well as being detrimental to populations of animals needed for the survival of other species.

CSHB2414 will prohibit the hunting of wild animals or birds on a public roads or rights-of-way.

RULEMAKING AUTHORITY

No rulemaking authority is expressly granted by this bill.

ANALYSIS

SECTION 1 of the bill defines the terms "public road or right-of-way".

SECTION 2 of the bill amends Subchapter A, Chapter 62, Parks and Wildlife Code, by adding Section 62.0031, which prohibits the hunting of wild animals or birds from a public road or right of way, as defined in the bill. This section does not apply to the trapping of a raptor for educational or sporting purposes.

SECTION 3 of the bill provides the effective date.

EFFECTIVE DATE

The bill is effective upon a 2/3 vote of all members of the legislature. If a 2/3 favorable vote is not obtained, this bill will be effective on September 1, 2007.

COMPARISON OF ORIGINAL TO SUBSTITUTE

CSHB2414 changes the terminology about what animals may not be hunted from a public road or right of way by substituting "wild animal" for "game animal, wild fowl." It also provides an exception for trapping of raptors for educational or sporting purposes.

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Here is the link. Click on one of the icon right below Bill Analysis
http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillLookup/Text.aspx?LegSess=80R&Bill=HB2414
Link

If you do not have any actual data to make a decision with, just make stuff up.

It seems to be working out for them so far, right???

We need to pressure them to reveal the data they are basing this on.

1: How many injuries or fatalities in say the last 10 years were the result of a snake hunter walking up a rural right of way?

2: What species are in decline? With data on that target the bill at those species... Oh yeah, no data.

3: Why are herpers being ignored while hawkers are being accommodated?

4: What data did they use to give an exception to the take of raptors?

I am sure that there are more good questions to add to this list, but I will let you thing of them…

I think the bottom line is that there is no justification for this and it has drifted far away from the original intent that was proposed. And what is even better they have dug in their heals and refuse to look for this data they are basing it all on. It is like dealing with 2 year olds….

Lance

"1: How many injuries or fatalities in say the last 10 years were the result of a snake hunter walking up a rural right of way? "

Although I don't think DPS keeps these stats, I'd be willing to bet DPS hasn't given a ticket to a snake hunter for a moving violation while the hunter was roadcruising or spotlighting for snakes. Sure, someone may have gotten a ticket for speeding to get up to the snake hunting area . . .

"2: What species are in decline? With data on that target the bill at those species... Oh yeah, no data."

I really think that this bill represents one Representative going on "data" from a conversation with a single or small number individuals in LE at TPWD . . . some of the "Old Guard" as it were.

For those species (e.g. turtles) that TPWD has data showing declines, they are already closing these species to commercial take. If they wanted to target a specific species, then they should have said "it shall be illegal to collect box turtles and map turtles" from a public right of way. At least then it would be based on data.

"3: Why are herpers being ignored while hawkers are being accommodated?"

Falconers were a lot more vigilant than we were, and were on top of the thing from the very start. The herping community didn't even become aware of it until it appeared at the committee hearing on 3/27. I think that the falconers may have a paid lobbyist in Austin . . .

"4: What data did they use to give an exception to the take of raptors?"

None, but you'll note from the wording of the exception that Raptors may be trapped "for educational and sporting purposes . . ." - I think that this points directly back to the ugly spectre of commercialization. In many people's minds, Falconry = Sport hunting; snake hunting = commercial collecting.

Troy

But 99% of the people are sport hunting and 1% are in a negative cash flow.... How can we make them understand that the captive trade in native wildlife is almost always on captive produced offspring. I think they see those numbers and assume they are taken from the wild.

"But 99% of the people are sport hunting and 1% are in a negative cash flow...."

Yes, I agree that the relative proportions of individuals involved are as you state above. However, there are individuals that make their living selling w/c wholesale. There are also others that supplement their incomes doing so. The numbers that they do have (on turtles and rattlesnakes) in particular support this (why there's not a bill shutting down rattlesnake round ups, the most egregious example of commercial collecting in Texas, I cannot fathom!). Also, there's the well publicized article about a turtle collector talking about how "wide open" Texas rivers are to collection, bragging about how much money he's making, and telling the world how he can't keep up with demand (note also he's "one of the foremost herpetologists in Texas", according to google).

www.cleburnetimesreview.com/siteSearch/apstorysection/local_story_063135233.html

"How can we make them understand that the captive trade in native wildlife is almost always on captive produced offspring."

It is for most of the animals that we're interested in, but you also have to take into account feeder lizards and all the green anoles, green treefrogs, ribbon snakes, green snakes, etc, that are sold in pet stores. While a substantial portion of the trade in native colubrid snakes is captive-bred, a lot of the trade in other species is not.

"I think they see those numbers and assume they are taken from the wild."

For some, they are. For others, they're obviously not. I think that the "in house" stuff from TPWD (the bans on trade in box and large water turtles that are going through) is based on data. Unfortunately, this bill is coming from a mis-informed state representative, and is clearly not based on any data collected by the Wildlife Diversity Section of TPWD.

Troy

"Why are herpers being ignored while hawkers are being accommodated"

I spoke with Steve Boyd about this this morning and he told me because his group has had a long lasting relationship with the TPWD and they also work closely with the Federal side (permits and such). Also, when they have "EXPO'S" or gatherings, they are usually across the way from TPWD'S booth. What I gather from this is either it truly is a "good ol' boy network" or WE as a group are not having as much contact with TPWD than we should be having. None of these I like!

Wayne

The question to ask is "why do falconers have the relationship, and conversely, why don't we?"

IF we want to have successful, functional relationship with TPWD (like the falconers) we will have to put aside the bad blood dating back from the 80s and we will have to sit down at the table with them and find common ground and compromise (that dirty word!). While I've been working on that sort of thing with TPWD since the late 90s (and have been in rebuilding mode for the past year or so, given changes in TPWD), I am well aware that there are very vocal segments of the herping community that don't want to do what it takes to have a successful, functional relationship . . . and so long as those vocal individuals are loudly bad-mouthing TPWD without any counter from more reasonable heads, TPWD will continue to view us as nut-jobs, etc.

Troy

sadly Troy, I have to agree........