Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was watching your video today. I tried to force feed two balls just like the video said. Never did it before...never needed too! It worked. Thanks Dan & Colette. Makes me feel so good. The video paid for itself!

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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

Don't I get any thanks?

Tom

>>I was watching your video today. I tried to force feed two balls just like the video said. Never did it before...never needed too! It worked. Thanks Dan & Colette. Makes me feel so good. The video paid for itself!
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>>RicK Denmon
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>> Ball Boutique,Inc.
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Wow. That video sounds pretty interesting. Under what circumstances do they recommend force feeding? I have always wondered how these breeders get their BP up to weight.

I mean I have wondered how they dealt with prolonged fasts when they have a business to run and are counting on breeding.

So, do they force feed in order to get animals up to weight or do they only reserve force feeding for those who are really losing weight and getting sick?

I have always wondered what I woudl do if my BP's which I am trying to get up to breeding weight went into a prolonged fast.

Please let me know. Thx in advance.
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Longtang. I like snakes and rats.

I had one not eat for 10 months, it didnt lose much weight, if any. She stayed around 2000 grams. The fast dont really affect them as long as they are healthy....
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Josh
My Email

Oh and I never helped her feed, she eventually just starting eating again, gotta be patient with some bp's....
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Josh
My Email

"Wow. That video sounds pretty interesting. Under what circumstances do they recommend force feeding? I have always wondered how these breeders get their BP up to weight."

Breeders do not force feed to get their snakes up to breeding weight! Force feeding only stresses the snake out and would be counterproductive. He was talking about a technique called "assist" feeding which involves gently pushing the head of the prey item into the snakes mouth and then letting its natural swallowing reflex kick in. Even with this gentle technique they still recommend doing it to a hatchling only if it has not eaten for months after hatching. It can be a useful tool but should be used with caution.

Proper husbandry and patience is what breeders use to get their snakes to eat - not force.

Laura

Who said it was an adult or sub adult? They are BOTH babies.
Get the video mam! How many babies have you produced this year? 26 babies and 3 clutches cooking for me. Maybe 3 more to drop.
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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

I'm really not interested in arguing with you. What I said to lontang was not about you - I was answering his questions. and I do have the video - otherwise I wouldn't be talking about it.

Anyway you can go have a fight with yourself cause I'm not playing.

Laura

debate not fight.
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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

>>debate not fight.
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>>RicK Denmon
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>> Ball Boutique,Inc.
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Sorry. Terrible misunderstanding! I, myself, still am looking for a used copy! Had a chance to buy a copy with no spiral binder book for $40. However, I waited too long and it got sold.

Well, it didn't have the spiral bound book. I am curious: what is contained in the book? Or is the video the most important part? I ask because if in the future, I see a great deal that doesn't include the book, I would like to know if I should still buy it?

thx for the help. And apologies for assuming that you were talking about an adult!

cheesr.

Please have a great Breeding Day!
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Longtang. I like snakes and rats.

I also tried assist feeding this year. This is my first year with baby balls (CH) and I had 4 that would not feed. After almost 2 months I finally tried the assist feeding. I first tried with a pinkie rat and that was just a No-Go. Snakes spat it out promptly. But when I tried with a mouse fuzzy I have found that all I really have to do is get the head in the snakes mouth, then it coils and seem convinced it did it all by itself! I usually go ahead and daisy chain 2 or 3 small fuzzy mice at that point (once I've gone to the trouble of stuffing the mouse down the snake I figure it better be a GOOD meal!)

Has anyone else noticed that a fuzzy mouse works better than a pinkie rat?

On another note. 3 of those 4 are now voluntarily feeding no problem. One of them that I got in on 4-26 still has not voluntarily fed. I first assist fed him in mid June and he seemed pretty weak then. I have gotten him up to almost 100 grams and am now considering letting him miss a few meals hoping he will choose to eat on his own. How long would y'all say is appropriate to continue "assisting"? I don't want to let him starve (And he was in pretty sorry shape when I finally started assist feeding him) but I don't want to be stuffing mice down an adult ball every week for the rest of my life either! ~ I don't even want to keep him, I bought him as a female, but I can't even trade him off when he won't eat voluntarilly!!!

Let's not confuse the newbies....

Laura

I considered force feeding is when you push a mouse in the balls mouth. Call it what you want to call it. I call it forced.
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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

Of course you can call it what you want. But you associated it with the Snake Keeper and they call what they teach on their video assist feeding. And what they teach is different from what is commmnoly referred to as force feeding (i.e using a pinky pump) I just wanted to make it clear to newbies.

Laura

Glad you mentioned pinky pump. Can you help the "newbie" what that means. BTW did my post explained that I was NOT using a pinky pump? I placed the fuzzy in its mouth. That is what the tape said. Never needed to do it before.
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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

Ramming a tube (or anything) down a snakes throat, not put the head of a mouse/rat into its mouth but a deliberate putting of something right down it's throat into into it's stomach and putting something there (ie: a tube, a syringe and a mixture of goodies you need the animal to consume).

That's force feeding. It's taking it NO MATTER WHAT!! (unless it regerges but only an a^&hole would do it again and again right away)

Dave

Extremes. It is going against the reptiles wishes when you place a rodent into a snakes mouth. I offered the same pray and they refused it. We can disagree about what you would call it but to me placing food in the reptile is not a natural behavior to the animal therefore you are forcing/assisting the animal to do what you want it to do and that is EAT. Yes much less force. Both did not enjoy the procedure.
Now step back slowly and put that pinkie pump down and no one will get hurt!

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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.

Hey Rick –

Now that this thread is almost off the page and seems to have run its course, maybe I can add my two cents without stirring up the pot too much more.

You normally seem like a pretty reasonable guy in your posts. So I’m wondering why you keep arguing this issue. I first heard about the assist feeding technique in the 1980’s at one of those International Herpetological Symposiums. I think it was described by Dave Barker or some other guy from one of those Texas zoos. I’ve done my fair share of assist feeding since then and find it an extremely useful technique. And I will certainly force feed in certain situations, as well. But no way are they the same thing. One gets nutrients down and “teaches” the snake to begin the mechanical process of feeding with minimal stress; the other delivers nutrients via a tube or whole animal which is forced down the animal’s throat and is clearly more stressful (and more likely to result in regurgitation). Two different terms. Two different techniques.

If we are to communicate effectively, we have to learn and use certain terminology. Most of us might err in our estimate of the weight in grams of various sized mice, but we all pretty much know what we’re talking about when we use terms like “pinky”, “fuzzy”, or “small adult” mouse. So, too, are the terms “assist feeding” and “force feeding” now standardized among knowledgeable herpers. Do you really think they are the same thing? Or are you just being ornery? Ya do wanna communicate doncha?

-Joan

Thanks for calling me a reasonable guy!
We are debating on semantics. Call it what you want too. Like I said making any animal do what it does not want to do is forcing. Those two animals did not want that fuzzie in their mouth. I would imagine they would not want a tube in their mouth too. They both thrashed around as if the world was coming to an end. I had gray bands that would regurgitate with so called assist feeding. Pinkie pump seem to get down and have more liquid retained in their stomach.
I am always ornery. I think you already know that. Call it what you wish. I will call what I wish. If someone asks me "What do you mean?" I will describe.
Also, I let mom take care of her eggs. Gee what an abnormal thing to do and say! Most of the so called big breeders pull to incubate. Gee, I must be crazy!
Ya do wanna communicate doncha?

How big was the ozone hole in 1901?
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RicK Denmon

Ball Boutique,Inc.