Reptile & Amphibian Forums

No law against walking or driving with Camera. No bags, hooks or means of take, just camera. Also means you are not hunting! Therefore no need for hunting license.

Steven 20 bucks
TP&W -20 bucks

20 bucks is another half tank of gas.

Wooohoooo

Steven

This thought crossed my mind as well, but I would hate for that to be an easy out for those that don't want to take the time to write a letter. Sure, if this thing goes through, most of us will still look for herps because there are plenty of loop-holes. But ultimately, do we really want laws like this passed? I think not, so we really need to pull together and send off both printed letters as well as emails like crazy.

I'll be setting aside some time tonight to prepare several letters to be emailed and sent to various people.

One thing that would be really helpful is to have a central location where all available contact information could be easily accessed. That way, for those that don't want to do all the foot work to track down addresses, can look in one place to fire off multiple letters by email and mailing.

"No law against walking or driving with Camera. No bags, hooks or means of take, just camera. Also means you are not hunting! Therefore no need for hunting license."

I'm not sure that it is that simple. Since I don't collect or capture herps, walking with a camera is all that I do. However, that does not stop LE from stopping and asking to see my hunting license. Under the current law, I don't need to convince them that I'm not "hunting". Under HD2414, I would. Also, by some interpretations, simply grasping a snake and posing it for a photo (or worse bagging it to photograph in better conditions then release it) could be still be considered "hunting".

Does the law that defines hunting as “the pursuit with the intent to capture or kill” distinquish between “capturing” for a five minute photoshoot versus a permenant captivity?

However, that does not stop LE from stopping and asking to see my hunting license. Under the current law, I don't need to convince them that I'm not "hunting". Under HD2414, I would.

I'm not sure how this new statute would change that at all. If it was OK before to walk along a roadside photographing snakes and have it not interpreted as "hunting", this law does nothing to change that.

Also, by some interpretations, simply grasping a snake and posing it for a photo (or worse bagging it to photograph in better conditions then release it) could be still be considered "hunting".

Collecting an animal, even temporarily is considered hunting. How "temporarily" it has to be is open to interpretation, of course, but if you bag it and take it with the intention of releasing it tomorrow, you are collecting I suspect. If you are just moving it off the cut to take a photo (i.e. not bagging) I think you are OK.

Otherwise, all the butterfly photographers are going to be in trouble if they take photos on the roadside I guess.

Does the law that defines hunting as “the pursuit with the intent to capture or kill” distinquish between “capturing” for a five minute photoshoot versus a permenant captivity?

I don't think the law can do that. Otherwise, anyone who got busted collecting something illegally would just say, "no, really officer. I just found it five minutes ago outside my hotel room and I brought it in to take a photo. I'm not hunting!"
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

My take is that touching or manipulating the animal in any way could be considered hunting. Merely being in possesion of capture paraphenalia at the time you are walking could be considered hunting.
In practice I would walk with only a camera and flashlight and I think no warden would ticket you once you convinced him that you were in fact only observing. The hard part will be actually convincing them. I assume that is why you always bought a hunting license even though you were only photographing, because it is easier to just show your license than to explain you don't collect.
I totally plan to walk and observe/photograph this year even if this passes. I will not carry bags or hooks though. If I am reasonably sure I am not being watched I would pose the snake with a stick or something but I would be careful about that because of how it may be interpereted by a warden. I would certainly not detaine the animal overnight because no warden is going to believe you due to the fact that likely many people will still be out there collecting regardless.

manipulate the animal in any way you could be looked at as hunting. It is very tough to prove intentions, but easy to say "When I saw him he had his hand holding it down"

Lance

I think Lance is correct,anytime you manipulate the animal in any way, touch it , pick it up or even just making it go in any direction, can be taken as capturing or control over the animal ie hunting. Clark

>>No law against walking or driving with Camera. No bags, hooks or means of take, just camera. Also means you are not hunting! Therefore no need for hunting license.
>>
>>Steven 20 bucks
>>TP&W -20 bucks
>>
>>20 bucks is another half tank of gas.
>>
>>Wooohoooo
>>
>>Steven

Technically any seeking out of animals can be considered "hunting" by definition. It doesn't stop capturing or killing the animals as per Websters. See below.

Main Entry: 1hunt
Function: verb
Pronunciation: 'h&nt
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English huntian; akin to Old English hentan to seize
transitive senses
1 a : to pursue for food or in sport b : to manage in the search for game
2 a : to pursue with intent to capture b : to search out : SEEK
3 : to drive or chase especially by harrying
4 : to traverse in search of prey
intransitive senses
1 : to take part in a hunt
2 : to attempt to find something
3 : to oscillate alternately to each side (as of a neutral point) or to run alternately faster and slower -- used especially of a device or machine
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Steve W.

... Hunting is taking, but I think that even if you put it right back you hunted. Just like fishing is fishing even if you release it all as soon as the hook is pulled.

Lance

>>... Hunting is taking, but I think that even if you put it right back you hunted. Just like fishing is fishing even if you release it all as soon as the hook is pulled.
>>
>>Lance

If you can prove that you're "bird watching" at night that excuse may work. Otherwise to attempt to find something can be considered hunting by definition no matter what you or I define it as.
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Steve W.

I think most game depts. consider hunting to be "persuing". However I do not think walking and looking can be considered persuing. My take is persuit happens only after you have seen the animal and move towards it. This is the way it is with whalewatching in California. You can drive your boat around looking for whales but when you see one you must cut your engine at a certain distance from the whale. You can remain idle and let the whale approach of it's own accord but you cannot make any efforts to approach the whale.