Reptile & Amphibian Forums

If you prefer to email me your tactic, that is fine.

I know this could be a dicey subject. (I'm not saying I have brass enough to do it, but I would consider trying it once)

Tx.

Hold a credit card or somthing thin and hard behind it head and pressdown and pull hard on its tail- snaps it neck quick(careful you dont pull the tail of though)- or just press down really hard on its neck the same way(with somthing thin and hard)- Hit it in the head with a hammer(dont crush its head though)-
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Addicted
1.2 "Normal" Balls
1.1 100% het Ghost Balls
1.1 Diamond Carpets
0.1 Irian Jaya/West Papuan Carpet
-Just as addicted as the rest of you- this is the life-

Let me preface this by saying I'm not into animal cruelty. Most people that keep animals aren't, at least not deliberately. Cetainly even snake food deserves good food and lodging

That being said, they ARE snake food. There's cervical dislocation, described above, which is harder to do with larger rats simply because they are stronger and WILL resist being physically restrained. Means you risk being bitten by said rat . There's CO2 gas chambers that can be built which simply renders them unconsious until they die in their sleep. Or you can just smack their heads against any hard surface. Also sometimes difficult with large rats, but effective non the less.

All THAT being said, you can also simply order prekilled and frozen rodents online .

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

The one thing you need to watch when you hit them at the base of the skull they sometimes tend to shake violently and if they bleed they fling it everywhere but with time your aim gets better. Not to sound cruel but that's what they are bred or boght by us herpers for is food reguardless of how they die the outcome is the same. Thanks for looking
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Damian Macioce
www.strongholdreptiles.com

The best way to feed ur ball pythons if u are going to feed them dead is to just simply purchase frozen rodents it does not make any since if you are going to purchase them live and than kill your prey animals in the manners that are discussed in this present thread , if you purchase live let the snakes do the deed they have become experts at this through evolution.

If you ever saw a rat die in a co2 chamber you wouldnt recommend it. It is not exactly peaceful or quick, i think wacking them in much more humane ...
Kim

I totally agree and disagree I feel the best way to kill rodents if you purchase them live is a buy feeding them directly to your snakes and let them do what nature has designed them to do is the best way. I agree with you on the co2 issue I dont like to do it either to watch a rodent prey or any other prey being deprived of oxygen is not a pretty sight , the snake does it in a much more humane and faster way , I disagree with you on the aspect of killing the live prey by breaking its neck or any other violent human manner.

I disagree with you on that. Live prey will bite the snake I have seen it happen. Soem of us prefer to skip the insane shipping they charge to order frozen online

Mine are dispatched using a CO2 chamber and it's considerably more peaceful than many other forms of death. It's also a scientifically researched and approved method for humane death. Now, if it's not done correctly - like pre-charging the chamber - yeah, it can get pretty nasty looking.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

Agreed - If you blast them with Co2, they will suffer. But if done the right way,Co2 is the most humane method. Do a google search on rat euthanasia and you'll come across some techniques most of the universities and labs use.

Jose
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4.40 normal BPs
1.0 pastel BP
1.0 yellow belly BP
1.0 het albino BP
1.0 het pied BP
1.1 albino BPs
1.1 sunglow/anery corns
0.0.1 sunbeam
0.1 66% het stripe red tail boa
0.0.2 Strawberry hermit crabs
1.0 parakeet
1.0 spoiled rotten dog (Diego)
a crap load of rats and mice

And you think this is actually more humane than just letting the snakes kill there prey on their own.

By conking the rodent you sever the spinal cord and if done swiftly and correctly the rodent dies instantly. By allowing a "natural" death (constriction) the rodent takes a lot longer to die.

When I said "correctly" I mean you can basically aim and hit the target spot the first time. If you are going to try the conking method I suggest you start with something small like a mouse and work your way up to a larger animal. If you cannot handle it with a mouse you sure as hell can't handle it with a rat.

And as everyone else said .............. just buy frozen. Is there an echo in here?

Some local reptile shops that sell rodents are willing to prekill your rodent order for you. That is also another option to check into.
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Christine
Tails With Scales Reptiles
Looks, brains, and venom . . . . how do I stay single?

This is a waste of a thread I find it very shocking that some hobbyist who have kept ball pythons for a great number of years after I am pretty sure read all about the behavior of snakes I would hope still advocate purchasing live prey and than inhumaly killing them in the manner being posted in this thread. To even think that we as human beings who dont even consume rodents can can do a better job of killing them than these snakes , this is actually shocking, it seems that some who have posted on this thread have totally forgotten what they have truely learned about these beautiful animals, and for some of you keepers who really dont want to except the fact that they are the perfect rodent killing machine this is the way that nature has designed them to be, so who is better nature or man this should really be the discussion?

"This is a waste of a thread I find it very shocking that some hobbyist who have kept ball pythons for a great number of years after I am pretty sure read all about the behavior of snakes I would hope still advocate purchasing live prey and than inhumaly killing them in the manner being posted in this thread. To even think that we as human beings who dont even consume rodents can can do a better job of killing them than these snakes , this is actually shocking, it seems that some who have posted on this thread have totally forgotten what they have truely learned about these beautiful animals, and for some of you keepers who really dont want to except the fact that they are the perfect rodent killing machine this is the way that nature has designed them to be, so who is better nature or man this should really be the discussion?"

Like all things in the herp world everything is a matter of that person's opinion. I have been in the herp world (keeping, breeding, etc.) for over 16 years and that has never, nor will it, changed. I do not feed a live rodent unless I have to. I also have snakes that WILL NOT eat a f/t rodent and will only take it if it has been prekilled. I do what I have to, to meet the needs of my animals. This is my choice, my opinion. Only you can decided what you feel is more humane and proper. As it was said already ..................... the end result is the same regardless. The choice in how it happens it completely up to you.

If that makes me less human, cruel, this, that, or whatever, so be it! After all it's not about which method is right or wrong, this or that. It is about the love of the animals and the hobby. Correct?
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Christine
Tails With Scales Reptiles
Looks, brains, and venom . . . . how do I stay single?

Not at all trying to bash your opinion, but here goes. I think the majority who use prekilled or F/T do so not to be humane, but for the safety of their snakes. Live rats especially can inflict serious wounds to a snake in the throes of a life and death struggle. Yes, snakes have to eat them live in the wild, but our captive snakes are not living in the wild (they're all highly parasitized in the wild too...should we intentionally intorduce parasites to our captives?).

Also, from a convenience standpoint, many keepers do not have 24/7 access to live rats.

Also, from a price standpoint, short of producing your own rats, Frozen are much cheaper than live at a pet store.

Just wanted to bring up a couple of points missing from the discussion.

It not a matter of wether we can do it more effeciently than the snake. IT'S FOR THE SNAKES SAFTEY!! Why don't give this a rest?

Quig

Truth to tell, it takes a rat about 4 minutes to suffocate. You mean to say it isn't suffering during all that?
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

Buying frozen prey items is great. It's very convienient for both keeper and snake. That being said the prey item was euthanized at some point before being frozen and shipped. Shipping is outrageous so sometimes pre killing is the best way to go. I would think that anyone would agree it is in both the keeper and snakes best interest not to feed live prey as they can cause serious injury (no one wants their snake to be bitten). Yes in the wild ball pythons kill their own prey and suffer the consequences on occasion, but we in this hobby do not keep our pets in a habitat that requires them to hunt and find their own live prey, nor to search for water and adequate shelter so it doesn't make sense to justify feeding live by saying that ball pythons kill their own prey in the wild unless you are keeping them in some massive zoo-like enclosure to represent as close to the real thing their natural living situations. Bottom line, the rats die be it by the snake the keeper or the rodent breaders doing. Just a fact of life and herping. My two cents.
-Bryce

HIT THEM IN THE BACK. THEY WILL TWITCH ALOT. HEAD SHOTS ARE A BLOODY MESS. BEFORE YOU TELL ME THIS IS MEAN. BLUNT FORCE TRUMA IS BETTER THEN HAVE THE [bleep] CRUSHED OUT OF YOU.

I don't know if this would work as effectively on a really large rat, but I just drop them into a thick plastic bag and whack the rat against a hard floor. One good swing is all it ever takes. The rat dies right away. I've never tried dislocating the spine, because that's just too "hands on" for me. I don't want to feel the animal die...I just want it dead.

The only thing bad about this method is that obviously, stuff gets scrambled inside the rat, and things can become distended. But, if you feed it to your snake right away, it's no problem.

Clearly, this is the humbling aspect of herping, but ultimately, we're all just trying to do the best we can for our animals. And, freshly killed is a better option than having your snake get bitten badly by its prey. That can be really awful. So, you're doing the right thing.

Good luck.

Ball pythons did not evolve in are neat rack sysytems which I must say I happen to really like mine which is a vision rack the best on the market in my oppionion, they actually evolvved in a place called africa , where they have thrived for as far as we know millions of years, they have done a great job killing the live prey that inhabits africa which I am pretty sure is large species of rats and other rodents native to africa, all of a sudden we start breeding these beautiful snakes in captivity and now we know whats best for them when they have been doing this killing there on prey for millions of years, my point is made, this is why I feed live .

the ability of Balls or any other constrictor to dispatch with an apropriate sized rodent.
the question is do you want to risk having your prized Pied or your perfect Pastel injured by a $2.00 rat. If you have ever examined older wild caught specimens you will have undoutedly seen numerous scars. Frozen thawed is best, prekilled is second. unless you don't mined your snakes looking like a $50.00 import. But this is just my opinion.

Jeff

If you are not willing to do what it takes to keep your snakes alive through different feeing methods, LEAVE THEM TO THE MERCY OF YOUR HOUSE!

1)DON'T PROVIDE HEAT, because somedays, it is cold and cloudy in Africa.

2)DON"T GIVE THEM HIDES, in Africa if the aren't smart enough to find a temite mound on their own, then who cares.

3)DON'T EVEN CAGE THEM, in Africa they have no boundaries!

4)NO MISTING OR AC, if it gets to 100 degrees in the summer, who cares, the snakes have been evolving this way for years!

SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST!!!!!

-John

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Christine
Tails With Scales Reptiles
Looks, brains, and venom . . . . how do I stay single?

OK, I wanna know where everybody is gettin' $2.00 live rats. I'm payin' almost 4 for a medium live.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

He breeds them for his snakes and I buy them off of him. $1 mice, $2 rats, any size. Its a nice set-up

-John

Maybe in my next life

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

OK, I understand what they do in the wild. Do you ignore that many of these will die in the wild from damage taken by some prey item somewhere down the line? IT IS TRUE! If you do, I think it's time to remove your blinders. Your whole point is moot.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

feeding a snake pre-killed is like us going to McDonalds ...we didnt evolve to eat double cheese burgers but somehow it works .
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we're here because a hobby became an obsession

some days you're the dog, some days you're the hydrant...don't know who started this saying but it's the truth

assessment of the best way to kill a rat. I have tried the spinal dislocation techniques and they don't kill nearly as quickly as the bag vs hard surface method. I think though that if you are physically weak or tend to move slowly this is not the method for you. It takes a little bit of arm to do this to a large rat.
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"Can't you just feed it vegetables"? No, no I can't you stupid hippie.

np
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0.1 Ball Python
0.1 Corn Snake
1.0 Leopard Gecko
0.0.1 Blood Python

Although I've never enjoyed doing it, taking them by the tail and giving them a swift, solid whack against the bottom on an aquarium or other solid object does the trick. I do like the idea someone above used though, with the plastic bag. As gruesome as all this may sound, I like my snakes WAAYYY more than my rats, hands down. I am a herper.

-John

Just let the balls do it its alot less painful to your rodent prey,and its alot cleaner .

Without getting into the pissing contest you seem prepared to jump into, I state simply this: breaking the rat's neck with 1 swift strike is a heck of a lot quicker than thawing on out. Quite honestly, if a $2 rat bits my albino female, I'm gonna feel a heck of a lot worse than I would have just killing a rat. Most of my snakes do eat live, but I have some that don't, and this is the method I prefer, get over it.

-John

Balls can take a minute or more to kill. I do it instantly and there is no chance of my snakes getting scarred up. Also, those of you who say the best way is to buy frozen; do you really think that rodent farmers kill them more humanely than we do?!?!?!
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"Can't you just feed it vegetables"? No, no I can't you stupid hippie.

Good point, it just allows the quesy to forgo having to watch it .

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

The best way to feed ball pythons in my experince is by just feeding live , to pre kill by thumping or any other method that does not iclude co2 which is the only humane way to put prey animals down is actually a great deal more crueler, if you cant humanly put them down by using a co2 chamber these can be purchased and if you have a problem feeding live prey than its just better to purchase frozen rodents ,your snakes can be taught to feed on frozen unthawed rodents but to continue to waste time trying to find ways to kill ur live rodents when nature has already created the perfect killing machine in the design of your snake or snakes through evolution , this is why I feed my balls live the snakes kill swiftly and more humanly than we ever could .

Dougle, when it's all said and done I agree with you. I feed my balls live and two of them have been doing it for 16 years without incedent. But even snakes can miscalculate and that's when the best chance for damage occurs. Rats, if not grabbed by the head and wrapped quickly, WILL react in defense. And that means somebody's gonna get bit. I've got a big red tailed boa that miscalculated on a 450 gram jumbo and took a bite near his right eye. Was a clean bite and healed up well, and he's not missed sense , but it could have been fatal. Mistakes happen and if one is concerned, it's best to teach them to take dead prey, and the best way to do that is to purchase frozen from a dealer. Besides it's CHEAPER than live

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

Try placing the rats in a tupperware container that is only big enough so that you really have to cram the rats in tight so they do not have a lot of room to scramble around so much when the struggling starts.
I find loud AC/DC music in the room actually helps calm the rats during the procedure...almost as if they just freeze in awe of the greatness of AC/DC? Anyway, seal the tupperware container with a lid and then gently stab a pair of scissors through the container several times to a) kill most of the rats quickly, and b) allow air flow before placing in the microwave...ideally with enough stabbing, you will humanely dispose of most of the rats before actually placing in the microwave, however, some will undoubtedly make it past the gentle stabbing stage with some degree of consciousness intact. That's why you follow up with about 2 minutes in the microwave on low.
I caution to make sure to use a low setting because those rats that are still alive, will not take kindly to being so quickly exposed to microwave radiation, and of course you do not want those rats that are still struggling to be cooked alive, so actually, low kind of lulls them into a state of some kind of sleep that they seem to actually enjoy even though it takes a good 45 seconds of so to get most of the kickers to stop. Also, by using low, you won't actually cook the rats so much.
I find that since the rats are packed so tightly together, any occurent bleeding caused by stabbing the scissors through the whole mass of rats repeatedlty is absorbed for the most part by the fur of surrounding rats. Once the 2 minutes on low is complete, simply remove the container, take off the lid and Voila! you have yourself a nice steaming pot of feeders!
And while you are feeding and the snakes are coiled around the bloodied, slightly mutilated, steaming rats, it's sometimes entertaining to pull on their tail a little bit...kind of like I'm pulling on all of yours! hee hee

Is the greatest! Good job Sneaky!

-John

And here I thought I was messed up...
haha.

Anywho, I found that if I HAVE to prekill a rat, the most effected way is like so.

A: Put rat in a plastic grocery bag.
B: Pitch it at the wall like you would a baseball.

Kills them dead, fast, and as far as I can tell...isn't too inhumane.
Everybody in my collection takes f/t now, so I don't have to do this anymore, but when I had to, it was quite effective.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

NOT THE MICROWAVE!!!! They'll explode. Now we're havin' too much fun with this one.

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

I was going to put them under my kid's mattress & have them jump on the bed, lmao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

this is what works for me .... rats tend to resist and pull (with good reason) i set up a 10-20 gallon tank with a steel screen lid (wider grid). The rats grip it and pull away so if you hold the tail when they pull away they stay in the realtive same position this way.... a swift blow behind the skull with a dowel pin will snap the spine and 9 times out of 10 will kill the rat instantly. It takes a little practice but it is alot more humane than drowning or the hammer... It would be alot easier to buy frozen rats in the first place but i breed my own so sometimes i have to freeze a few. I prefer feeding live rats but we always have to remember to feed our snakes the proper sizes...with pre-killed sometimes you can feed something out of your snakes skill range too
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we're here because a hobby became an obsession

some days you're the dog, some days you're the hydrant...don't know who started this saying but it's the truth

I obsesss over my snake kids same as the rest of my zoo. I have no probs lovin my snakes knowing they can't exactly act like a slobbery dog in response.

Recently while feeding a live rat, I could not tell if my snake got a bite on its face. The rat got away from the snake after about 1.5 mins of being constricted. Snake went back & successfully killed it on the second attempt. I still can't tell if she has a bite on her face b/c she squirms a lot & I want to give her a few days to digest b4 I start poking around. (no bleeding now though)

Big rats are nasty & mean when they are dying, this is pretty much a fact. I do have pet breeders that I would never offer as feed, but when I do offer a live rat as food, I am NOT rooting for the rat. I want my snake to eat & be happy & full & not get a nasty battle wound from eating dinner. Since I control their environment in every other way, I just want to be sure that when I sound the dinner bell, they are happy to eat, not worried about getting wounded.

I breed rats for food & plan to continue doing so. If I have 1 snake that I feel better feeding prekilled to, then I had hoped to pick up a few tricks.

I always sit & watch each snake eat. I only have a handful, so this is no problem for me. I would never leave a big ole rat alone with any of my prized beauties, but that is just me.

I knew this question/topic would be interesting!

let them do it........balls shouldn't really be eating BIG rats anyways........or large even........feed them smalls and don't worry about it....don't let the rat in there that long anyways......if they want to eat..they will usually take it from your hand (or tweezers or tongs)......if they don't take it right away they don't eat most of the time....if you use live...the rat will jump out and run if you aren't quick at times.........for sissy snakes just whack it FULLY against hard surface...not head smack or whack or rat will bleed......full body slam........pretend you are Stone Cold Steve for a minute.......

........use large rat fuzzies and you can throw them in and leave them all night for the smaller , sissy , pain in the butt, or overweight feeders.....

........

the people in here gave some really stupid ideas......

plastic bag with rat in it slammed against floor (etc)..yea.bag rips and rat runs away mad.......

rat traps work but bloody messes are not uncommon.....

hammer......nevermind........try it on a BIG rabbit and see how it works.....too messy and not cool ....better yet a cat...( disclaimer..I did not claim to do it or try it or ever have done it....killing cats can get you arrested...)..don't know why.....

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use smaller rats.......
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who left a post about killing the rat with a rat trap? you dont think that would work quickly? thanks!

Jyohe,
IMLMAO.....put rat in plastic bag, slam on floor, bag rips and rat runs away mad. That is the funniest thing. I could't stop laughing on that one. Obviously it has happened to me once before, but never again. Even before that happened, I put one into a plastic bag, (Publix grocery bag)and as soon as it hit the bottom of the bag it was like a trampoline and he jumped right out onto the floor, luckily he wasn't mad because I hadn't hit him yet.
That was too funny, thanks!

Steve

Here is someone finally on this thread who knows what they are talking about , I would never first of all put a live large rat in with any ball period I only feed large live hoppers that want cause my snakes any harm or give them a fight , and if its a large ball you always feed two large hoppers this is reall quite simple whats up with all of the confusion , but its interesting to hear peoples oppinions and ideas on feeding their balls.

been doing this awhile........been through ALL the crap.........good and bad and stuff happens to me that noone has ever seen........

...I have 8 pound ball females.......I didn't feed them but one small rat a month most of last year......they are fine.......they were too fat.....they didn't give me good eggs or any eggs last year from most of them.......this year they all look like they took.......I hope.......at $50 for males for pastels I need all I can get.......LOL.......

........balls burn no calories setting around a water bowl all day and night looking out through the opaque box front.....

........rodents are more work than reptiles at times.......

........smalls.......extra smalls.....fuzzy and hopper.......call them whatever.......small rats are ok......huge rats aren't.......

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smaller rats are like popcorn shrimp/chicken to them. Pop em in your mouth and smile!
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4.40 normal BPs
1.0 pastel BP
1.0 yellow belly BP
1.0 het albino BP
1.0 het pied BP
1.1 albino BPs
1.1 sunglow/anery corns
0.0.1 sunbeam
0.1 66% het stripe red tail boa
0.0.2 Strawberry hermit crabs
1.0 parakeet
1.0 spoiled rotten dog (Diego)
a crap load of rats and mice

people have told me that they feed their ball like 6 or 8 large mice at a time......why?.........I feed 1 huge mouse to alot......2 if they want and at proper times of year I will try 3 even........but most won't eat the third most times........most often meal is 1 rodent.......
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and slam them on the floor. I did this once with a med rat and placed him in with the snake. After a couple of hours - the snake which normally feeds right away, if it's going to, didn't - I took the rat out, wrapped it in a plastic bag and put it in the freezer.

The next day, I opened the freezer to find a hole in the plastic bag and a frozen rat huddled in the corner. What seemed dead, was not. I felt bad for the little guy.

I don't worry about that now - they go to the CO2 chamber, vacuum - packed and then to the freezer.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

my brother killed an adult rabbit.......pet......then placed it in freezer to hear knocking noises the next day and open freeze to find bunny setting up looking at him.......took him out and it lived for awhile till he got tired of noone taking care of it again so he got rid of it..........kids never help with the pet they wanted in the first place....wives aren't too good at it either......
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