Reptile & Amphibian Forums

When directing things at the fence-sitters or supporters of this legislation, I think we really need to direct our focus on the loss of knowledge about herps and how that will affect our ability to create sound management decisions about these populations. Discuss protecting the ability of future generations to enjoy these populations. Keep to the high ground, and don't discuss "my rights" (that sounds selfish). Talk about kids.

For the ones you think are on our side (e.g. rural constituencies) I think we ought to focus on rural concerns, loss of revenue, etc.

At this point, letters to Pete Gallego need to be simple, short, and supportive of his position in opposition to this bill.

And by all means, keep things civil, don't sound like anarchists or tinfoil-hat wearing loonies. No name calling!

Troy

While that’s all perfectly true, you must admit that we, personally, stand to lose substantially if this is passed. Not to mention the surreptitious and disingenuous manner in which TP&W has sought to strip this right from us based on misperception instead of evidence. Apparently they thought it would fly right under the radar with that misleading title. I, for one, am weary of having governmental agencies, at any level, engaging in deceptive behavior and tampering with my rights.

Shades of 1977 – only this time we have the internet.

Never fear – I’ll be civil. [/outrage]

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Tom Lott
Thornscrub

Snippits from the TPW statement sent to Frolow:

"A person hunting nongame on a public road or rights of way would be clearly in violation if they do not have a Texas Parks and Wildlife permit authorizing collection on a public road or rights of way.

This bill will not prohibit entities such as schools from obtaining a collection permit for zoological collections, scientific research or educational display."

Are they referring to the same permit in each sentence? What is this permit and how do I get one (that's a joke). And, doesn't the "advertised" availability of this permit take some steam out of the "loss of info for sound management decisions" argument, unless we can demonstrate that hobbyists, not educational institutions, are and have been, the primary source for information gathering about reptiles and amphibians?

But, then there's very little need for info for sound management decisions (I assume you mean when developing resource usage regulations) if everything will already be 99% conserved.

Just playing devil's advocate, Troy. I've got two trips planned to Fort Davis this year. One in July with a friend, the other in August with my wife to celebrate our 20th wedding anniversary(and you know I'll be laying down some serious money that trip). Both trips will be cancelled if this bill gets over two-thirds vote. I haven't purchased my annual nonresident permit yet, but what about those that have? Do they get issued partial refunds?

Finally, has TPW returned your calls? Just curious about the face they're putting on for you

Robert

Posted by: rpelaez
Snippits from the TPW statement sent to Frolow:

Are they referring to the same permit in each sentence? What is this permit and how do I get one (that's a joke). And, doesn't the "advertised" availability of this permit take some steam out of the "loss of info for sound management decisions" argument, unless we can demonstrate that hobbyists, not educational institutions, are and have been, the primary source for information gathering about reptiles and amphibians?

The permit that they are refering to is a "salvage permit". You can get one from TPWD (free) as long as you have a university/museum person sign off that you're donating preserved specimens to them. Considering I donate several hundred salvage specimens annually (now to TCWC, since my brother's the curator there), I'll certainly be able to get one should the need arise.

However, I've never had one before . . . and I've always been donating as a hobbyist. I know lots of other hobbyists who have donated specimens and contributed to published distribution papers. I published a note regarding alterna distribution almost 10 years ago, and had specimens donated to me from 4-5 different collectors. Joe Collins published a range extension on T. cucullata for Terrell County based on photos from one of our forum contributors. In fact, the third specimen ot T.c.diabola was found by a hobbyist (my dad). So I think we can make a case for the hobbyist making sound contributions.

But, then there's very little need for info for sound management decisions (I assume you mean when developing resource usage regulations) if everything will already be 99% conserved.

It is TPWD's job to manage resources, and while this legislation (on the surface) may benefit LE (e.g. make their job easier) it will not benefit the folks in Wildlife Diversity who's job it is to make those management decisions. Never think that TPWD is some monolithic entity, with every department on board in regards to policy and policy decisions. Its a bureacracy like any other, with different departments, often with different goals, all of which have to hammer things out between each other. I think this is happening right now with TPWD (but that's mostly a hunch).

Just playing devil's advocate, Troy. I've got two trips planned to Fort Davis this year. One in July with a friend, the other in August with my wife to celebrate our 20th wedding anniversary(and you know I'll be laying down some serious money that trip). Both trips will be cancelled if this bill gets over two-thirds vote. I haven't purchased my annual nonresident permit yet, but what about those that have? Do they get issued partial refunds?

Considering that TX licenses run September-August, then I doubt it. However, I'm not convinced that the vote is that bad against us. If it gets that way, I think it will be at least partly our fault - lets make our case in as rational and reasonable tone as possible.

Finally, has TPW returned your calls? Just curious about the face they're putting on for you

I, for one, am not ready to jump to conclusions in regards to TPWD. Remember, its a big agency with several departments.

Troy