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UVB vs. D3 powder

Jake_Jackson Apr 17, 2007 05:18 PM

Well, this next statement will be rough for some.

I dont use UVB w/ my beardie. I do however give him a heavy dose of D3 and calcium. He looks to be growing, and getting fat.

I plan on switching him to the UVB light. I know that there is a thing as to much D3... So should I gradually give him the UVB light at intervals, and gradually lighten up w/ the D3... or just do the switch and just let him adjust himself.

Also, if I provide a shaded area, will that area not be able to give the UVB since it will be blocked by something?
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Leopard Geckos
Sahara (Normal)
Ghost (Blizzard)
"The Baby" (year old Albino)

Bearded Dragons
Junior(hopefully male/unsexed)

Replies (9)

BDlvr Apr 17, 2007 07:29 PM

It is well thought that dragons get very little usable D3 from intake. It's recommended and I use it more as a supplement at best. D3 is sythesized by the dragons skin from contact with UVB rays. I assume you are not giving him some kind of straight D3 (hopefully) but are giving him calcium with D3. Correct?

Without UVB your dragon is most likely suffering from some stage of Metabolic Bone Disease. I would get the proper UVB light right away and continue to dust with calcium with D3. The only time you take away the D3 is if your dragon gets regular unfiltered sunlight.

What is the shaded area? Outside?

black_wolf Apr 17, 2007 09:53 PM

someone's gonna yell at me for this...

but if you take your dragon outside for at least 3 hrs a week they can get all the D3 they really need from that with the supp. of Calcium and D3. I did that and when I had an x-ray done (a medical student always wanted a reptiles x-ray)and he had very good density of bone. I would say wean him off the D3 if you're gonna use UVB full time(meaning all his waking hours)
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1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Rex- "normal" orange fire)
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Glutany- German Giant Mix)
0.1.0 Okeetee Corn (Okatee)
1.1.0 Spotted Python (Hotdog and Shoelace)

Jake_Jackson Apr 17, 2007 10:24 PM

This guy isn't suffering from what my eyes can see. I use RepCal Cal w/ D3 phosphorous free.

I dust every meal, all the time... Never goes a meal w/o dusting. So I'm sure he gets his full, and considered I do have a habit of "over dusting".

WOuld the 3 hours a week be okay instead of a purchase of a UVB?

And I meant to block a section of the UVB bulb, to make a 'shaded area' in his tank.
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Leopard Geckos
Sahara (Normal)
Ghost (Blizzard)
"The Baby" (year old Albino)

Bearded Dragons
Junior(hopefully male/unsexed)

BDlvr Apr 18, 2007 05:52 AM

Black Wolf, I have no intention of yelling at you. lol.

My concern is that you are bucking established care criteria. Your experience is great but there is not a large enough sample on this forum to say if it will work with all dragons. Some dragons have a propensity for MBD and develop it even with proper food and supplementation. Calcium is also very important to more than just the bones. A better diagnostic test would have been a blood test rather than just looking at an x-ray.

Jake Jackson,

I'd get the UVB. It should run the length of the enclosure and have no obstructions between the bulb and the dragon. No glass, lens cover, plexiglas etc. I'd get the Zoo Med Reptisun 10.0. unless he is 12" or closer to the bulb. The calcium you are using is the best one in my opinion. Only dust live food not the salad. Once a week dust with a multivitamin. I use RepCal for this also but any is fine as long as it has no Vitamin A.

aroth Apr 18, 2007 06:59 AM

I do feel that your bearded dragon would benefit from a uv light.
In my openion, not saying you are wrong just stating why I chose to use UV lighting. I truly feel that all animals, humans included, need uvb... not only does it help with vitamin D3 it helps produce other chemical reactions necessary for life. Hundreds of thousands of years of evolution have taken place to allow our dragons to function as they are and I just think that maybe their body can produce what they need better than any man made factory producing vitamins. Just my opinion.
I have heard some success stories of not using UV lights and supplementing. I am sure no one really knows if this is a good or bad thing. So that is why I stick with some thing that is proven to work and keeps dragons healthy.

I have heard of over supplementing also, maybe you could call a vet who is a BD expert and ask what she recommends.

Black wolf were did you read that 3 hours of light is all that they need? I would like to read that. Love to read new info all the time.
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----ALICIA ROTH----

black_wolf Apr 18, 2007 11:20 PM

I didn't get flamed as bad as I thought...
I don't have the link anymore from where I read that 3 hours a week. I wish I did cause it had alot of other stuff...
If you're going to use a UVB bulb then I recommend taking out or cutting down on the calcium D3 as D3 can build up in kidneys(correct me if i'm wrong) if there's too much and just using "plain" calcium dust instead. Reptiles have slower metabolisms than us, so what may only last a day or so in our system can last up to a week in theirs.

And like people, what may work for one or two does not mean it will work for everybody; this is true

If your are going to take your dragon outside for a limited time then I personally recommend getting a harness for your dragon. I use the ones for ferrets as Gluttany has learned how to slip out of the "Non-slip" Iguana leash. Or if you can get (or make) a screened cage as someone else recommended and put them in there when outside, glass tanks will/can cook your dragon. When the weather cleans up I plan to have mine outside full time; save on electricity and I won't have to worry about it putting out enough UV.

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1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Rex- "normal" orange fire)
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Glutany- German Giant Mix)
0.1.0 Okeetee Corn (Okatee)
1.1.0 Spotted Python (Hotdog and Shoelace)

Piney Apr 21, 2007 10:28 PM

I made a leash for my beardie. 3 ft. piece of shoestring type leather ( it is soft) and two release buttons ( the kind that can be found on the end of jacket cords. Make a loop on both ends. one for you and one for the beardie. I put one loop around the beardie just in front of his back legs. Tighten down leaving a little slack for comfort but not enough for him to get out. Put the other end around my wrist. He is safe and doesn't seem to even know it is there. cost--under $5

jakentbc Apr 18, 2007 03:55 PM

i believe that the vitamin D that is present in the supplement is there so that the dragon can uptake the calcium. It is believed that vitamin D is required for cells to absorb calcium. Hence milk which is supplemented with vitamin D.

My wife is a medical student and is doing rotations at a hospital. We live in buffalo....its cold here 8 months out of the year. this doctor that she was shadowing was telling her how everyone in the city of buffalo that he has seen is vitamin D deficient. Which leads me to believe....we bearded dragon owners are more concerned with our dragons getting vitamin D than we are.....well except for those of you lucky to live somewhere warm.

well, back to the point....you still need to be sure that your dragon will be getting calcium if you switch to UVB lights. I use MVB and give my dragons their calcium by feeding them a pinkie every once in a while. I don't suppliment with powder. I also feed salads with i sprinkle reptical BD food over and spray with fresh water. reptical has suppliments in their BD food.
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a free range dragon is a happy dragon

PHLdyPayne Apr 18, 2007 07:51 PM

UVB light is very important for reptiles like bearded dragons to be exposed to. Though vitamin D3 can be provided by dusting insects with it, knowing the correct amount the dragon needs is extremely difficult, if not impossible by using dusting alone.

Also it is very unlikely you can visually tell if a dragon is 'ok' in bone density as MBD only really manifests itself visually when it has progressed to the point were bones are rubbery (weak jaws, long bones bending/curving when they shouldn't be), muscle spasms occur as calcium is also used to regulate nerve tissue etc.

The only way to know if you are giving enough D3 and calcium is regular blood tests and x-rays by an experienced vet who knows how to look for early signs of MBD. MBD is often a late sign of low blood calcium and lack of UVB rays or Vitamin D3 in the diet isn't the only cause of it.

Exposure to unfiltered natural sunlight will ensure the dragon naturally produces all the D3 it needs to properly metabolize calcium, providing he is getting enough calcium into his body, not getting too much phosphorus or oxates that interfere with absorption of calcium. I suggest an hour of natural sunlight (supervised, never leave your bearded dragon outside alone, especially if he isn't kept in a secure cage outside, with proper thermal gradients so he can escape the sun if it gets too hot) about 3-5 days a week. Three hours in the sun once a week isn't enough as the body will only make so much D3 before it stops, as the body will only produce as much as it needs for that day. D3 isn't stored for very long if at all.

Don't put dragons outside in glass tanks, these overheat too fast and will bake your dragon quickly. Rubbermaid containers that are large enough to give room for yoru dragon to move about and take shelter if it is too hot, are good. The screen cages are great, as most can be quickly folded away (most are tall but you can always lie down so there is more floor space than height. The screen will block some UVB rays but the sun puts out more than enough it won't be a real concern). IT is possible to use a harness with your dragon outside (keep on a tether, as dragons can move really fast if they decide they want to run) though I don't recommend these as it is just too easy for a dragon to get away or harm themselves as the harness or the lead can catch on something and injure your dragon. However, if you don't keep him in a container outside in natural sunlight, then use a lead but again, never leave your dragon tied outside alone like a dog, as they are not dogs and can quickly tangle themselves or wind up being a neighbor's cat or dog's dinner or a passing bird, such as a crow, raven or hawk.
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PHLdyPayne

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