Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Sorry to disturb you but I have on ongoing $100 bet with my best friend (veterinarian) about your nil.

He asked me if I was serious about your nil being dead?
I explained that no nil would let any dog sniff it out without at least eye balling him, but yours showed no interest whatsoever.

My conclusion its either dead or frozen?

Pleas show me wrong by posting a new photo of this monitor doing something, standing, feeding, tong flicking? A simple photo proving this animal is alive as we speech.

Thanks!

If I win my bet, I will donate my $ to a real registered animal shelter, should I loose I will apologise and admit being a fool.

"Pleas show me wrong by posting a new photo of this monitor doing something, standing, feeding, tong flicking? A simple photo proving this animal is alive as we speech.

Thanks!

If I win my bet, I will donate my $ to a real registered animal shelter, should I loose I will apologise and admit being a fool."

Jobi,

Please read over your post before sending it if you don't want to sound like a fool. I wish this forum had a way to go back and edit posts but I haven't seen it yet. I just like you, am curious about this monitor because those last pictures were pretty bad. Many days I have a hard time getting through these posts because the spelling and grammer is so horrible. I obviously make mistakes also, but lets try to look educated if we want people to listen to what we say.

I am sorry but my Micro soft office word is not working, I have to write to my best ability.

seems like my english has not improuved much, however I think most pepoles will understand that I am french and I have lerned english in 3-4-5th grade, I understand I must look prety uneducated (witch I am) hope this will not offend to many pepoles?

Rgds

Being uneducated is not a disease and theirs nothing wrong with a few spelling error’s, however I do agree with you, and I think its being disrespectful for any language to not make an effort in spelling.

I got careless in my post and for this I apologise to all English speaking peoples.

I will try my best to do your language justice from now on.

Kind regards.

Whats worse, our inability to write in excellent prose and correct spelling, and with the best syntex. Or, all these folks total lack of understanding of varanid language? For those who want to throw down.

This is now a writing competition, its a discussion board on monitors. Its not to be published or reprinted, its merely conversation.

If the writing style or spelling or lack or correct editing confuses some, they need to simply ask for clarification.

After all, its about the monitors.

Personally I love accents, be it written or spoken, Cheers

"Whats worse, our inability to write in excellent prose and correct spelling, and with the best syntex. Or, all these folks total lack of understanding of varanid language? For those who want to throw down."

Yes, this is a monitor forum and of course its important to attempt to understand varanid language. After all, like you say, its about the monitors. But on the other hand, writing is our only way of communication here, so don't you feel its beneficial to everyone if we know how to do it? Im not expecting people to have excellent prose or the best syntax or spelling, all I am asking is to be able to put together a simple sentence. Nobody wants to throw down, well actually, maybe a few people want to throw down with you because they can't handle feeling inferior in their varanid knowledge.

"This is now a writing competition, its a discussion board on monitors. Its not to be published or reprinted, its merely conversation."

No it's not a writing competition(which is what I think you were saying), its a discussion board about monitors. I know this. But our form of discussion is through writing. Don't you think one must establish credibility in order for people to listen to their ideas? How can you establish credibility if you cannot communicate?

"If the writing style or spelling or lack or correct editing confuses some, they need to simply ask for clarification."

Very true. But about how many times do you want to ask for clarification before you just say forget it and not bother asking anymore?

"After all, its about the monitors.

Personally I love accents, be it written or spoken, Cheers"

I totally agree, it is about the monitors, thats why we are here. And I love accents as well! I personally wish I had a much more "interesting" one. Unfortunately we don't get to hear them on a written board. And yes I appreciate everyone that is here contributing, when they are fluent in another language and still trying to learn english. But just because this forum is about everything montiors doesn't mean you cannot learn other things as well.

When I started posting a few years ago, it was mostly to practise my English, I enjoyed typing my posts and looking up most words in the dictionary, unfortunately after some years this got tiresome, you must understand what takes you 5minuts to write can take me 3h, even then I often erase and start all over because it doesn’t read the way I expected.

So yes this forum is my English class, sometimes I get frustrated a want to post ASAP without going thru the entire dictionary.

I have no problems understanding your point, and I surely respect this with any language, as I also exchange in 4 other languages, however hers my problem.
I have never complained to anyone about there difficulties of communication, not that I never felt the need, but simply because doing so is perhaps more insulting to the person trying to communicate in a foreign language then it is for me to try and understand them. I have no problems saying when theirs something I don’t understand, not understanding someone is in no way an insult, shutting off to him because your to damn lazy to make an effort in understanding is not only insulting but its like shutting off the world around you.
Of course this is not aimed at you in anyway, I am only generalising here, and also not only do I agree with your view, but I am now able to be careful about my wording, theirs no excuse for being careless, and I have been careless no dough.

Thanks for pointing it out.

Ps. FR is right when you know someone and have spoken to them, you can see there accent in the way they write. I have no dough Frank sees my writing as he hears my voice, this keeps us bonded in some way.

I give you a world of credit for making the effort! The post was not necessarily aimed at you, because if the scenario were flipped, I would have just as much difficulty as you if not more. It was more for the people that know english but are careless and just don't make the effort. And besides, the ones who actually know the language are hurting you with their poor grammer and spelling if you(and others) are trying to learn from it!

And I wish I knew some of you well enough to be able to see the accent in the words!

Do you live in France? If so, I want to go! Then you can have the opportunity to poke fun at me and my inability to speak your language.

Ok, your right, I will quit writing. As I do not have the time to go over and over it. I actually have animals that could really use this valuable time.

About credibility, Credibility is what I do with my animals, not what I say about them. Or how I write about them, Its what I DO with them.

On this forum I am not to serious about monitors, this forum is more of a social gathering. Most of the posts here are more about mind games. And mental chess, if you will.

I do understand why you are saying this, its because you understand writing and not the monitors. So it gives you something to say. When I read peoples posts, I look for the "monitor" content. I suggest you do the same. Cheers

"Ok, your right, I will quit writing. As I do not have the time to go over and over it. I actually have animals that could really use this valuable time."

If your time is so valuable, then you probably shouldn't be wasting it talking to someone who obviously has no understanding about monitors, about something other than monitors.

"About credibility, Credibility is what I do with my animals, not what I say about them. Or how I write about them, Its what I DO with them."

Of course you have credibility because of what you have done. But if you sat all alone without ever expressing your ideas and sharing your stories, through writing here and other places, people wouldn't know who you are or care about what you say. Being able to speak and write well does have to do with your credibility as does your experience.

"On this forum I am not to serious about monitors, this forum is more of a social gathering. Most of the posts here are more about mind games. And mental chess, if you will."

Cool.

"I do understand why you are saying this, its because you understand writing and not the monitors. So it gives you something to say. When I read peoples posts, I look for the "monitor" content. I suggest you do the same. Cheers"

Its interesting because I don't understand writing. And according to you, I don't understand monitors either. Strange, because you responded to my other post even though it didn't contain any "monitor content". Oh I see now, you are the one that needs to find something to say...if it doesn't pertain to monitors, you can respond so you can play "mental chess", but at least you have a reason to speak up and tell them how much they don't know about monitors.

Your missing something, and its a huge something. I come to share, my successes and my experience. I actually have no investment in whether you learn or not. Of course, The you I am referring too is all of your keepers in general.

I share in hopes that it "can" benefit the kept monitors. The problem is, the keepers have to want to absorb information.

Truthfully I am a little mad at you(again in general) I also have lost faith in you(in general). The information to successfully keep monitors has been around for over a decade, much longer in fact.

With my presense, you see success, you read it, your see pics, your aware it occurs, yet, you fail to apply it. So yes, its a bit sad and bet maddening. But its not my problem.

The reality its your problem. Again the your is you in general. Cheers

Frank,
Come on. You are the king of the mental chess games!!

AH

I believe I said that is what this forum is all about. And surely I do not dislike playing. I love to play.

During these games seems about only way information gets out. That is too bad. Cheers

Hey. Another thing we agree on. I have a hypothesis that this newer computer age of people are what has changed things. Look at sites like youtube and myspace where people feel the need to live cyberlives. Oh well .........
Frank, what have you got in the incubator so far this year? You have mentioned the late winter weather. Has that pushed things back for you?

AH

What?
Winter weather now? I'm still trying to get the cool spots cool as my hot spots are where they should be, but what does winter weather have to do with it!? Please get me up to speed... Thanks- Mike

I was just making reference to the cold winter that Frank had mentioned in earlier posts a week or two ago. I know he keeps some animals outside. I am curious as to any differences between breeding the innies and the outies.

AH

A couple of things. Most(in number) of my clutches come in winter, which means its not outside.

The answer to your question is very simple, it does not matter.

You see, once you understand what they need, its far easier to provide it inside. As outside is unreliable and uncontrollable.

Its cold and rainy right now. I have three gravid monitors outside. Hmmmmmmmm. Its cold and rainy outside and I have a 5 gravid monitors inside.Hmmmmmmmm inside the monitors do not have to tolerate the unusually cold whether we are having this april. We had an exceptionally hot march and a exceptionally cold april. That confuses the heck out of monitors. It does not confuse the inside monitors. The third option, indoor/outdoor, also get very confused with odd swings in weather.

On an apples to apples comparison, I get more clutches and more hatchable eggs inside then outside(species and individuals). But I get hatchable eggs doing both. You see, most people are naive about what the needs of monitors are, so they hope that outside covers what they do not understand and provide inside.

On the otherhand, the sun heats like a litebulb(big bulb), only we do not have to pay for it, its free. Also outside space is cheaper then inside space, if you have the land(I do)

On the otherhand, outside is very dry in the summer and we spend lots of money on water(expensive in the desert) very cold in winter(more electricity then inside) and does both on the same day(more work for franky) or automatic controls which fail and still makes more work for franky.

What bothers me is most people fail indoors, so they blame Vodoo(the sun) or magic or something. They think it cannot be them so they think its the sun. Its not, well it is in a way, the sun allows for a huge temperature range. Huge I tell you. This is what allows outdoor monitors success, not the sun. If they have this range, they will not use the sun.

I have recomended for DECADES to offer a range of temps, a huge range of temps. In fact a range of temps that exceeds their actual needs, Hmmmmmmm thats what outside does. Then let the monitors pick what they need. Hmmmmmmmm thats what monitors do outside, they pick what they need, when they need it. Hmmmmmmm offer that inside. Heck, its easy.

The problem is, outside monitors die when the extremes occur, too hot, too cold, too dry and too wet. Indoors extremes are very easy to control, outside, how do you stop a flood(of extremes)

But then its only common sense, monitors or the like, only live in certain parts of the world that provide the conditions they need. All the other areas in the world(the U.S. is one of them)(with the possible exception of some short term south Fla. neigborhoods) have extremes that limit their survival. Cheers

Frank,
Thanks for the info. I was mostly interested in the comparison between the indoor and outdoor animals, and how the weather changed their schedules.
I knew you kept more indoors. May I ask what kind of facility your indoor animals are set up in? Do you use a pole barn, garage, etc.... What kind of heat source do you use for the room or area? I realize that the troughs are heated individually.

Thanks,
AH

The weather plays havoc with the outdoor animals. It truely tests their ability to cope.

I have a dedicated building. Aprox 30 by 50. It was build for monitors(at least what I knew back then)(i would do it different now) It has a large electric heater thats on a thermo. In 14 yrs, its never gone on. Those dang hot spots in the cages heat the building so that I have the building cooler going year-a-round, day and night. If it would snow more, I would save on electricity. Cheers

(((During these games seems about only way information gets out. That is too bad)))

No its not too bad, I have learned more then ever during these fights, my only regret is those fools with knowledge who cowardly disappeared instead of showing what they have to share. They have no sense of humour whatsoever.
It’s a shame all those intelligent peoples could have challenged this board and keep it alive, but no they crumbled down like a card castle and took refuge among themselves elsewhere, poor souls no fun! No challenge! No spirit!

sorry for letting you down Frank, I wanted this forum to grow but my friend at the time (the librarian) was taking this far to seriously, his health was degrading and I had to call it quits.

I don’t regret anything at all, it was fun and educating.

With the exception of you, those "others"(lost) had so very little to share, they simply had no ability to continue to fight. I on the otherhand got new information(weapons) almost everyday.

They had theory, they had academics, one definition is, (a study or project) not ready for practical implementation. Its theory, not fact. As opposed to a clutch of eggs, thats fact, not theory.

Why they left, academics is the opposite of results. Lack of results is academics.

Also, they build their academic knownledge on what they "thought" happens in nature, which may or may not be right or in context with captivity. In otherwords, they were out of place(wrong forum) and lacked experience in the context of this forum(the keeping and breeding, of varanids) Then they relied on academic knowledge instead of actual hardcore results. Which I recieve on a daily basis.

It also appears they were not all that smart. I was taught education superceeds bullying. All I had to do is appear to bully them and off they ran, hahahahahahahahaha If they were smart, remember these are university folks(some PHD's), who are taught in the arts of debate and writing, and practice arguing on a daily basis, could have and should have run circles around me. So, they appear to not be that smart or that educated. And surely they had no experience. In reality, they could not win, not in this arena(forum) or with the monitors.

You sir, proved that with brains and being creative, you can win over reality. But then, you used genius, something they lacked. You used me against me, brillant, just brillant. Where you failed was taking a partner(the librarian) He allowed an area for me to attack, he was your weak link. He lost control and was easily angered, then lost focus(he did not have much to start with)

Yes those were times where the blood flowed and we knew we were alive.

As you know, I love to test things(science) you sir, made a wonderful human experiment(test). What a beautiful experiment it was. You had the best of the best falling over sideways, how wonderful.

At first I did not like what you were doing, then I saw what it was causing, polarization, and I started to enjoy it. Then I started to like it. Then I was amazed at how brillant you are.

At first I thought what you were doing was harmful. Then I learned it actually helped seperate the mix. It did not matter how educated they were, the mix seperated. It actually allowed more people to learn and test techniques, it also allowed more to fall for academics. Then I realized, they would do that anyway, only it would take longer. Our arguements(test) quickly created more successful keepers. It gave them reason to work hard and stay working. You know, to prove one of us wrong.

So yes, I can blame you for my attitude today. Now I try to seperate the ones that will succeed from the ones that won't. The ones that have the ability to succeed, benefit from information, the ones that won't, are academic. Cheers

P.S. like the old days, you and I are about the only ones that will understand this post. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha