Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Can anyone post links to good online care sheets specifically for Black or Northern pines? Just bought a book by Mara but like to get as many possible sources of information as possible. The book is basically a general guide - have a book on milk snakes from same author and a lot of duplicate info present.
Activity: diurnal
Temperature: 70F-82F higher for black??
Housing: Std 10gal for neonates to 55gal for adults (5'x2'x1.5' custom cage per adult is what I'd like to use)
Hides: hot and cold side
Water: Bowl big enough to soak in. Change every other day. Sanitize weekly.
Substrate: Paper towels, Aspen, recommendations? Like to burrow so 3" aspen good?
Food: f/t mice/rats appropriate to snake size. every 5 days book recommends neonates: 5 pinkies or 3 fuzzies, juvies: 2 mice, adults: 2 rats or 6 mice.
Photoperiod - just match the season.
Brumation: For healthy snakes only, 52 F about 6-10 weeks
Handling: Except after eating. Daily as babies to avoid attitude later.

Would like to raise a pair from babies to breeding adults.

I've never seen a caresheet specific to one sub-species of Pituophis. There may be some out there, but I don't know where. Most of this stuff looks pretty good except maybe the feeding part...most neonate pits would regurgitate 3 pinkies or 2 fuzzies. Some will regurg anything with fur on it at first. Most adults would also regurg 2 rats. I've found that you can feed them smaller meals every 3 days without regurgitating...neonates one larger mouse pinkie every 3 days and adults one small rat every 3 or 4 days. It seems like big meals get 'em.....

and click on the hyperlink for the Pituophis Page. All the husbandry info you'll need.

Try this page, has alot of good info
Pituophis Page

Just checked it out after posting. Much more to the point and helpful. I thought some of the books info was hokey - especially feeding. Biggest concerns were temps and feeding. Thanks for the help. Look forward to getting first pines.

: Can anyone post links to good online care sheets specifically
for Black or Northern pines? Just bought a book by Mara but
like to get as many possible sources of information as
possible. The book is basically a general guide - have a book
on milk snakes from same author and a lot of duplicate info
present.

Within the last year I posted a critical review of Mara's booklet in the old pit forum. You might want to search through the archive for that. Strangely enough, the breeding section was quite good. I wish the rest had been. For most husbandry purposes, the Loves' Corn Snake Manual is superior.

Here's my take on your question, based mostly on breeding Iowa bullsnakes, though I've owned some black and northern pines.

: Activity: diurnal

Yes, if temperature allows.

: Temperature: 70F-82F higher for black??

All USA pits. Daily temperature cycle, mid 80s F day, dropping to the low 70s F night.

: Housing: Std 10gal for neonates to 55gal for adults (5'x2'x1.5'
custom cage per adult is what I'd like to use)

Shoe box to 10 gallon for neonates. 3 x 2 x 1.5 feet is easily big enough to breed a pair of 5 foot snakes. IMHO, any aquarium over a 20 gallon is too heavy, too breakable, and too expensive to use as a snake cage.

: Hides: hot and cold side

Okay.

: Water: Bowl big enough to soak in. Change every other day.
Sanitize weekly.

6-8 inch diameter water bowl. No long periods of soaking.

: Substrate: Paper towels, Aspen, recommendations? Like to
burrow so 3" aspen good?

Newspaper. Think big, relatively loose droppings.

: Food: f/t mice/rats appropriate to snake size. every 5 days
book recommends neonates: 5 pinkies or 3 fuzzies, juvies: 2
mice, adults: 2 rats or 6 mice.

Neonate: one pinky for first meal. Then enough food to produce a visible bulge in the belly. Feed weekly. Larger specimens can take an adult mouse at two months of age. A mouse weighs about an ounce. 6 mice is a nice feed for a 4-5 foot bull, or the equivalent weight of rat. A weanling rat is around 3 ounces, and an adult has no problem swallowing a 6 ounce rat.

: Photoperiod - just match the season.

Never worried about photoperiod. Just brumation.

: Brumation: For healthy snakes only, 52 F about 6-10 weeks

My bulls were at 45-52 F for 8-12 weeks. I'm told that blacks can go as high as 60 F. Males seem to shoot blanks til after the second brumation.

: Handling: Except after eating. Daily as babies to avoid
attitude later.

Yes.

: Would like to raise a pair from babies to breeding adults.

Fairly easy to do. Go for it.

Paul Hollander

I have a black pine and Mexican pine care sheet on my website.

Tim

Third Eye

Hi Tim
Your website got me interested in Blacks and Northerns in the first place Wanted to get as many sources of info as possible before starting. I'll definitely get hold of you in Aug to find out how your hatchlings are doing and hopefully make a purchase.