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The info mike gave worked like a charm. The next question i have is what percentage of her diet should be made up of bird eggs.I have a friend who owns an avery and i have access to fertile eggs (button quail,pidgeon,finch,bobwhite,dove,etc.)also a few new born birds mostly button quail. Once again mike, thanks for the info.
CHRIS.

This will shock you but crocs eat very little eggs of any species, there primary diet are insects, rodents and bats, they are specialised bat eaters!

Nothing wrong with eggs other then possible salmonella.

I read an article by Dr.R. Sprackland that wild crocs fed on young birds and eggs in addition to rodents, stick insects. True this was and old article in the GIANT LIZARDS book. But thanks for the info. any information is welcomed. Like i said earlier this is the first hatchling i've had the pleasure of working with and i want the best for her.
thanks, Chris

Spracklands book is horrible, period.

While you can do what you like, I kept raised and bred croc monitors and raised their hatchlings. They were fed rodents and grew without problems.

If a bird smacked into a window I would throw it in with the crocs and if still alive, they ran from it. Then ate it after it died(the monitors were big chickens)

Again, you can feed whatever you like. But I like to feed what works and is known to work. Cheers

Thanks for the info,Frank, i appriciate it. I noticed when i put live pinkies or small fuzzies in with her she would get close to them but if they moved or crawled toward her she would take off in the other direction. Now i know to offer f/t mice and gutting them really got her eating well. THANKS to everyone who offered information it really helped.
Best to you all, Chris

Heres a thought, if you have to resort to tricks, then your husbandry is off. Healthy monitors seek food with a vengence. You should not have to gut the food.

If I see that type of behavior, I look for a cause.

Of course, if your monitor is an aggressive feeder, but is reluctant with certain food types, that is also telling you something. Cheers

Tell me what you think. Here's the set up. The monitor is aprox. one and a half months old. six and half inches snout to vent(i measured her). I've had her for two weeks. she is a captive bred import. I have her set up in a five by two by three enclosure. plenty of branches and hide spots. The temp. is mid. 90s on one side and low 80s on the cool side night time temps are 82 to 86 and the humidity according to the gauge is about 78%. ANY FEED BACK WOULD BE WELCOMED.
THANKS. CHRIS

"she is a captive bred import."

Shes a what? haha! You might as well just drop the CB from it unless you saw pictures of the parents mating and the eggs. What a marketing pitch...hmm, lets just stick CB and import together.

"The temp. is mid. 90s on one side and low 80s on the cool side night time temps are 82 to 86 and the humidity according to the gauge is about 78%."

Great, but what is your basking temp? It needs to be hot! And if you don't know what it is, thats probably one of your problems. In order to eat, its gotta be able to digest it.

actually i did see pictures of the breeders he has six pairs and she is eating. the basking temp is 104.

raise the basking temps to 130-140.

Tom

As I have said many times, I raise my hatchling monitors in ten gallon tanks. The hot spots are around 100 to 110F. That included croc monitor hatchlings.

I also admitted that once they graduated from these tanks and were placed in raise up cages. They went to heat(135Fplus) and looked at me like I was holding the good stuff back.

The reason I do not offer higher heat to neonates is, Surface to mass ratio. Hatchlings are very very susceptible to rapid dehydration. So I raise them up until they gain mass.

First you must understand, I do this and I know what the problems are. Others may not, they may keep high heat and lots of ventilation. Which would cause a rapid decline.

So, I would not recomend high heat. After all, I know you can keep monitors alive with temps no higher then 85F. They just do not progress much. Cheers

With the info.that i got i raised the basking temp from 94 to 105.My croc hatchling is more active and eating well. I'm still working on the humidity level its at 79%. Is this sufficiant or does it need to be higher/lower.
Chris

40% to 80% is fine.

Thanks jobi.
Chris

Times have changed and some Asian guys are getting pretty good at breeding monitors, don’t underestimate them.
Lace parentie, spencer,greys,melinus,prasinus have all been produced last year, theirs a serious collector with unlimited resources who actually owns these species with official Australian paperwork.
It’s a matter of time before they are offered to us.

wouldn't doubt most of those being out there but with grays I would be a bit sceptical about CB animals with actual permits from the Philippines.

Perenties can and have been bred numerous times, and can be exported from Ozz with some work...

Hello Jobi,
Is this information gathered from stomach content studies from a specific population? Is this information purely academic- did you collect the data (that is the kind I like to hear)? Just interested in any info about this species... Thanks ahead and best to you- Mike

Hello mike
First let me set the facts strait, Robert has never seen a wild croc nor thus he knows anyone who did, also he’s never analysed stomach content on any specimens.
This is why he was looking for me on every forum a few years ago.

Not that I have seen them or studied them, but because I know guys trapping them for the trade and I exchange with birders who observed crocs feeding habits, sins birders are very concerned with BIRDS seeing any crocs eat them would have been reported to me, in 7 years none of the guys I talk to have seen them raid nests, but they have seen them eat bats, katydids, grass hoppers, crickets, fruits, rodents and frogs, never lizards, birds, snakes, crabs, leaches, millipedes, spiders, smaller monitors, fish or eggs. I am sure captives would eat them if theirs no options.

Trapped crocs often regurgitate bats for the most part, notice how well adapted they are for such a prey, excellent body camouflage, fits inn nicely with leafs and flowers, second they turn instantly at whatever touches them, its easy to see how this habit can ensure results when a fruit bat touches them, next there teethes are in pairs of 2,a specialised prey adaptation if you need to see a photo let me know.

Last but not least, I know of no monitors that will eat stick insects, have you tried them? Yuck they stink and taste like hell.

Other species of monitors are known nest rubbers, but they inhabited different habitats, perhaps lower trees? Or simply of less density allowing a better view? It could mean death for a monitor to plummet 100 feet because of a defensive mother birds attack? Of course albigularis or other savannah monitors have little to fear if only 20 feet up? Maybe it’s a question of species? Or even season? Or saving energy, theirs no point in going after a prey you cant catch? Who knows?
I know captive crocs will eat any bird you throw at them, and I have fed them lots of birds, but I know birds are of little interest for them in nature.

Thank you Jobi,
I appreciate the information very much. I know that what they do/eat in the wild is not going to impact my captive feedings much but I do really enjoy learning about them. I have also in the past fed one of mine a pidgeon and thought it was strange for a canopy feeder to pull the head off by biting the neck which is what happened- as this would risk dropping the food... Also, I have over the years never really seen any of mine vigorously shake food that was live as some other monitors do. They just catch and bite it and if it moves, they bite down on it some more- no shaking (hence, the use of the teeth). Sprackland is I'm sure a very nice man, but I did buy that book "Giant lizards" years ago, and after reading something about them(crocs) using the snout to push under bark for insects or some other ridiculous claim like this, I never read the book again... And, the stick insects stink, literally stink when handled and I can't imagine anything(besides some nasty mammal marsupial...) eating one out of necessity. Interesting that you posted that they don't care to eat lizards either, as I once kept a black tree monitor and a small group of burrowing lizards in with a pair of croc monitors. Also had roaches and crickets living in there too- the crocs only ate the rodents that I gave them. Again, thank you very much and if you feel like sharing any info about these animals any time, please do... Best to you- Mike

Something of interest to think about, many of the species I have done and do field work with, live with the prey species they consume, but do not consume those individuals. Then venture a short distance and feed on individuals that do not live in their same nitch.

This behavior is very interesting to me. Cheers

Frank,
I have seen similar things with other species here in central MO. I have found a family of wood rats along with black rat snakes and copperheads under the same piece of tin.
It is interesting to think that a predator can live with the same species it preys on ..... but different individuals. ("I won't eat you, but your cousin is looking mighty tasty!"

AH

Your talking about resource sharing when temperatures do not allow for proper metabolism.
I am talking about food preference! They could eat them but don’t?

We see this during the feeding season and we see it commonly with many types.

In captivity its seen as this type of event. Have you ever put a rat or mouse(live) in with a snake and not have it eaten. Then tried another rodent of the same type and the snake takes it right off. I use to see that commonly(before I knew you were not suppose to do that. Oh heck, I still do it(leave live rodents in cages) But not with sick or hindered individual reptiles. Cheers

Yes I see this often, the next day I take the rodent out and try again few days later, usually theirs a shed coming or something else behind this.

I never tried to offer other foods?
Many years ago some of my large pythons would ignore live rabbits but take chickens right away, never new why they did this?

But this is not what you said in your post, you mentioned some animals living with prey but not feeding on them, these however will go hunt similar prey elsewhere? This is bizarre behaviour, wonder what’s its all about?

Ahamp was talking about resource sharing not the same as you, maybe I didn’t understand correctly?

Jobi,
I really didn't know what I was observing. Young wood rats would make a fine meal for the black rat snake and the copperhead. Were they just sharing cover, or was predator living with potential prey? I wish I knew. It was one of those weird things that I observed, but made no attempt to explain it without more data ..... which I could never get. The area became off-limits for herping.
I would love to hear if anyone else has seen this. Usually, when I have seen predators in the vicinity of prey, it was for feeding or an attempt to feed.

AH

Well Robert is indeed a very nice person, but a poor varanophile!

You seem to have made good observations with your captives, the shaking prey thing as most monitors do, is simply not an option for croc monitors, they have hollow teeth’s and hollow mandible and upper maxillary, the rest of the head skeleton is very thin, this animal is clearly designed for lightness, a perfect arboreal. Imaging them shaking a rabbit? The poor thin would be toothless and broken jaw. They have a puncturing bite that causes hemorrhagic.
The entire skeleton is very flexible, this surly allows them to hang on to proper sized preys with little to no damages, the bulbous nose could help with small bite of rodents or bats? My captive have never been injured by small to medium live rats, however I did kill adult rats just to be safe (probably not necessary?)
Doreanus also don’t shake there preys, while jobiensis will do both shake and tear them to pieces. Incidentally I often fed full grown rabbits to my crocs, they would tear them to pieces and eat it entirely except part of the intestine, always the same part, funny?
I dough wild crocs would benefit from such a large meal? a steady diet of mice as Frank said is far more efficient, theirs plenty of food for them in nature, no need to gorge themselves and limit movement.

I tried to feed them all kinds of lizards, they ended up basking together as buddies? You know crocs have been trapped in the same tree hollow as prasinus and jobiensis? But never indicus or doreanus, how weird?
I tried but failed to house jobbies and doreanus together, I don’t know why but they just don’t get along, maybe for the same reason crocs are never seen with them to?

Anyway I am going in September and will stay as long as needed to better understand these lizards. Hope I didn’t jinx myself again here!
The last time I said this I ended up in Hospital.

Hello Jobi & Frank,
Once again, I'm very greatful that you both have shared some experience and wisdom here with Me and any others willing to read and learn.
I do not know of any lizards that my crocs have eaten. One of my lizards did bite one of the black tree monitors that was living amongst them (neck bite, for climbing on her I guess "without asking"- startled, as you said they turn when touched quickly. Yet, I have touched them on occasion (always after they saw me) but looking in their eyes while doing this seems to provoke mine to hiss and blow. I have in the past had large rudicollis live among them also and they over or on eachother - no problems... but large rudicollis will eat blacktrees... I do have a skull from a large male that succumbed to a wound quickly and died(before a vet could work) after a bad pairing with an intolerant male. This was well before I learned to sex them with any accuracy and as I have mentioned before here, I still have a tough time sexing today- at least, it's not a male unless I can SEE it's a male. That almost broke my "love affair" with croc monitors because I was bonded to that animal- him not to me- but after years, I to him. I too have fed a rabbit, a big dead one that was in the freezer for some time(took forever to nuke it!) I did this on the assumption that komodo's would "meet" or socialize over food... stupid or not, I did it and they ate up and tore it up- this was with glass front doors and it was wiped up on the glass- what a mess... Jobi, I know that I have mentioned the lighter faced(nosed) variety with the smaller disordered spots on the back and body. I have seen pictures from Indonesia I think at a park in Bali, of these animals. Do you know of this specific population/locale? I have one female that is the very dark black with big yellow spots and no speckling and some that have more white speckling on the head and much more yellow. Well again, I have greatly enjoyed and learned- thank you both- Mike

This morph is from Merauke, they get a little bigger have broken down patterning and keep the vivid yellows as adults, providing they have vivid yellows to start with.
I like them more then other crocs because they are shy, this shyness make it easy to work them, its fun when you can feed an animal that sits at his door step without trying to charge you or take the hand that feeds, bold monitors are quit a handful, maintenance is easier when you don’t need to keep an eye on them. Cant say this about other crocs.
I never had any problems with Merauke, they have always ran away from me not in my direction, these are the only crocs I freely handled when adult, worst case scenario when angry they jump off and walk away, for this reason they are the only morph I offered in the past. I have never sold any sorong or saluweti to anyone, call me coward but I fear any lizards that don’t fear me.

never heard the specialized bat eater comment, what is the source of this info? Sounds interesting...

thanks

n/p