Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all,

I just got my first snake about two weeks back. He's a young (no idea of the actual age but I'd say he's 14-18" long) albino California King that we call Kether. He seems to be adapting alright to life with us and we've both been reading a lot and researching various forums and websites to be sure that we're doing everything for him as best we can. I have a couple of questions though.
We've been trying to minimize the stress of the move from the retailer we got him from to our home, so we haven't handled him yet. We would like to be able to do so though and it sure would make cleaning out his substrate easier. He's had his second fuzzy as of last night and so we know we're going to have to do it in the next day or two but we're both pretty nervous. He's small and quick and we don't want to hurt him or fumble and find him on the floor of our loft heading under the fridge, ya know?
Never having handled a small, nervous snake before, this is kind of worrying for us. Any thoughts?

The other question is about enclosures. He's currently still small enough to be in a 10 gal, but we'll eventually want to move him up to a twenty ad then probably on from there into a larger vivarium. Does any one have any advice about when we ought to begin to look at make the switches?

Hi. I'm a new snake owner too, our Florida king was a bit smaller than yours when we got her. We were nervous too, and have her started in a 10 gallon. But with the realization that I am inexperienced and there are many, many people here qualified to give you good information, here's my experience:

At first, we just held her in our hands but still inside the 10 gallon, until we got a feel for how she moves, how hard you can hold her, etc. It won't take long before you feel comfortable taking her out, I'm guessing. This weekend it was really nice out and I took her outside for the first time. I was showing her to a neighbor across the fence and I just got a panic that if I dropped her she'd be GONE! But the bigger she gets, the more comfortable she seems hanging on to my hand. It's neat to feel her get stronger and use your fingers to support her weight.

Also, the guy we got her from showed us to touch her head a lot. At first she's really skiddish about her head, but even after just a couple seconds, you can touch her head without her flinching.

Our snake is growing quickly (thanks Bluerosy!), and this coming weekend we are going to get something like a 30 breeder for her. She has adjusted really well to everything, and I think even though that's large for her current size, with hiding places in the warm, cool and middle portions, I believe she will thrive.

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0.1 Lampropeltis Getula Floridana

I kind of figured that it would be just a question of getting in there and doing it, really, but having the confidence of someone else saying "Yep, it's THAT easy" helps a lot. Thanks.

So, why touch their head?

I think, and again this is just what the guy we bought her from, they get 'head shy.' And it's better to get them used to being handled when they are young. Of course that could all be crap, I don't know. I do know that she very quickly gets comfortable with being handled, even if she's skiddish at first.
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0.1 Lampropeltis Getula Floridana

A couple thing i want to add to what EddieF said.

First he has a florida king which are not as nevous as Cal kings as neonates. When you first handle you cal king expect that it will deficate on you. That is a typical response to gross out a predator.

The other thing is snake have their nerves on their back. So when handling try and just let the belly of the snake touch your hand arms ect. Snakes do NOT appreciate being petted like other animals and is a sure way for your snake to respond with strikes, biting and deficating.

When your snake grows and gets more size it will calm down. In nature they do not have to worry about predators as much so their defence system is way lower as adults. Feed you snake often and as much as it will eat and it will grow to be strong, healthy and tamer. Thast the real key to owning a snake that you can handle and be happy.

Cal kings make great snake pets as long as some of their basic natural ecology and characteristics are understood.
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I still don't need no spell chack.

I'm expecting the "musking" the first few times we handle him but I didn't know about the nerves along the back thing. I'm really glad that you mentioned it as my first instinct would have been to gently close my hand around him when I first picked him up.

He's pretty skittish still and he spends a lot of his time burrowed in his substrate (cyress chunks, he seems to love digging around in it), but I'm sure it's past due for cleaning, or will be soon. Should we just dig him out or should we wait until he's out and moving around on the surface to begin handling him / cleaning up his house?

Spot clean whenever you see crap.
How often you do a thorough cleaning depends.

I do a thorough cleaning (replace all substrate) of my cal king neonates once a month - with daily spot cleaning. But they are in little 4 quart shoebox tubs.

Don't get a larger tank. Not for awhile. 10 Gal should be big enough until they are nearing 30 inches. I gave my best feeder from my clutch last year to my little brother, and while he still eats - he no longer is a "good feeder", never taking two rodents and often skipping - he's in a 10 gallon with appropriate heat and hides etc. - but he seems to be far more nervous than the ones I still have that are in 4 quart shoebox tubs. Not all react that way to a 10 gallon, but some of them really do feel more secure in a smaller space.

I think part of his problem may be that my little brother plays the drums - though the snake is in a different room, and their young corn snake doesn't seem affected (eats very well etc.)
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3.6 L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
1.1 L. getula nigrita (MBK)
1.0 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis fitchi (Valley Garter)
1.0 Boa constrictor constrictor (suriname, fostering/rescue)
3.3 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

Well, he burrows in the substrate which is fairly chunky stuff and so far we haven't seen any crap, but I'm thinking that since we fed him first on Friday last, there must be some by now. I'm guessing that it's just burried somewhere in the substrate.

I don't want to leave it in there for him to run into again when he's burrowing, but I'm trying to balance that desire with the need to not stress him out by digging up his house.

Thus the conundrum.

The reason I'm so concerned about stress right now is that we just fed him again last night. And thinking on it now, it was Thursday when we fed him before, not Friday.

Fortunately, we definitely don't have a difficult feeder on our hands.

...is there any special technique for picking him up? I read something about using a snake hook to coax him to move forward into your hands. Do I need to do something like that or can I just cup him under his middle and lift, then let him move from hand to hand?

I'm just full of questions today, aren't I?

Well as Bluerosy said my Florida is different in some behavioral ways, but I dig around for her all the time. I just like to know where she is, it helps me know if she's finding comfortable temperatures and I think it's just useful to learn about her behavior patterns. But when I want to pick her up, I just grab her in the middle. She's sometimes startled at first but quickly settles down. As stated, your results may vary...
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0.1 Lampropeltis Getula Floridana

Absolutely no reason to use a snake stick.
I've never used one in my life for anything - and I think it is unfortunate that so many people use them for smaller non venemous.

I can understand using one with a large constrictor (IE burm, retic, or even boa constrictor) that bites - or a snake specialized for birds (long sharp teeth) - but for kings, just pick them up and let them glide through your fingers over your hands.

Watch re-runs of Steve Irwin and notice how he lets not venemous snakes just glide through his hands.
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3.6 L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
1.1 L. getula nigrita (MBK)
1.0 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis fitchi (Valley Garter)
1.0 Boa constrictor constrictor (suriname, fostering/rescue)
3.3 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

...now that's an awesome idea.

I really wanted to see an example and who could be more perfect? Thanks.

What kind of snakes are built for bird catching? That's fascinating!
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0.1 Lampropeltis Getula Floridana

Some boas and pythons - and I'm sure some others.
They have very long teeth so that they don't end up with just a mouth full of feathers.
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3.6 L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
1.1 L. getula nigrita (MBK)
1.0 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis fitchi (Valley Garter)
1.0 Boa constrictor constrictor (suriname, fostering/rescue)
3.3 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

Here's an ad from the tree python section. Look at the teeth in the third pic, and the discription "will bite you ate the drop of a hat". I'd say a hook is in order here.

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=33&de=474269

Wow!! That's BAD! I think I'll stick with my fellow Florida friend. But I wouldn't mind seeing a snake grab a bird on YouTube or something.
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0.1 Lampropeltis Getula Floridana

When working with a new kingsnake, one of the most important things to remember is this: don't back off if the snake becomes defensive. That will just teach him/her that when he/she assumes a defensive posture and/or strikes, the big scary thing will leave. Baby Cal kings will often musk when first handled, and while it stinks, the musk isn't harmful. If your snake bites you, don't panic - it doesn't hurt and he should let go.

Here's what worked for me:

I would open the cage and if the snake was visible, I would place my hand (palm down) gently on his back and leave it there for a moment or two before picking him up. If he had buried himself, I just dug around until I found him and then picked him up.

In response to what EddieF said about touching the snake on the head, I definitely approve. I've done this with my own snake, and it has been useful when I've had to remove small pieces of substrate from around his eye scales. Also, getting the snake used to being touched around the head makes it less stressful (IMO) for the snake if it is being handled by young children.

Good luck with your snake!