Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Yes or no? Necessary or not? Beneficial or not?

I've always used them for my monitor, but there are people who swear it isn't necessary. I was wondering if anyone had any solid knowledge on the matter.
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Christen
ailin_ravenclaw@yahoo.com

1.0 Northern Emerald Tree Boa
1.0 Black Roughneck Monitor
0.1 Red Tail Boa

Well you dont need it to produce dozens of generations and hundreds upon hundreds of healthy monitors for nearly two decades, far exceeding every known captive reproductive potential for monitors.

But maybe it is needed.

Tom

I wasn't looking for attitude about it. I just wanted some solid information that I could base my conclusions off of. I've always been told that whether or not it's essential is up for debate, but that it's always beneficial... at the very least, to produce a regular day/night cycle. Now, whether or not I can just use a regular bulb to achieve the same result is what it really comes down to.

UVB is expensive, and if it isn't necessary... I don't want to have to buy it every six or so months.

So, Tom, what do you do to create a day/night cycle? Or do you do that at all?

Just looking for some clear information from intelligent reptile people.
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Christen
ailin_ravenclaw@yahoo.com

1.0 Northern Emerald Tree Boa
1.0 Black Roughneck Monitor
0.1 Red Tail Boa

It doesn't seem to be necessary.

man im coming off all wrong today haha, I didnt mean to give an attitude. Not seriously anyway...sorry if it came out wrong.

Also I wasnt referring to myself, I have not bred monitors and probably never will.

I was really referring to FR and a few others here who have been very succesful without UVB. My point was the results speak for themselves.

Tom

Thank you for the information, then.

Unfortunately, sometimes the internet makes people sound like they have an attitude. You can't really hear tone in a post.

Thanks again.
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Christen
ailin_ravenclaw@yahoo.com

1.1 Northern Emerald Tree Boa
1.0 Black Roughneck Monitor
0.1 Red Tail Boa

I guess he was referring to me. Its not needed, and in many ways its very detrimental.

It does't appear that UV bulbs harm monitors, but I imagine that if used in amounts that were helpful, it would indeed be harmful. Read instructions on these types of bulbs. They say do not look into the bulbs for extented periods. Whos going to tell the monitors not to look at the bulbs.

Also, its a bit like the boy with his finger in the hole in the damn. He can stay there with his finger in the dam or fix it. Thats the problem with UV type bulbs, they give the false sense of security about poor husbandry. Its better to fix the dam(improve your husbandry)Then sit there with your finger in the dam.

Varanids and many other reptiles need a wide range of temps. When they have that, they do not need to be fixed by all sorts of bandaid cures(UV bulbs is a bandaid cure). Without a wide range of temps, then you will need more then UV type bulbs.

In short, UV bulbs are a product promoted for a profit. As its not needed in anyway and is of no benefit. That is, if you have decent husbandry.

By the way, I have raised turtles, torts, chams, beardeds, many varanids, snakes of many many types, many many other species if lizards, all without UV bulbs and indoors. I raised them to a productive life. I have been doing this for over a period of 45 years.

What is lost in most if not all conversations about UV and calicum is, WHEN IS IT NEEDED MOST. Most are only taking about needed these bulbs to be healthy or simply to prevent something that may or may not occur. That is so very naive. Others talk about the high need for usable calicum during reproduction, that too is very naive. Without question Calicum is critically needed during rapid growth. This is about the only time there should be a concern. As fast growing reptiles are doubling their skeleton as fast as every week.

Our reptiles grow very quickly and we do not use UV bulbs. Our results are equal to or exceed anyones. Cheers

FR, do other lizards get there heat/light a different way than monitors? They have like a special UV light sensor on there head? I mean I don't think lizards are thinking I need UV. I ask this because monitors grow at least as much as other lizards and some much more. So you would think they would need a ton of uv. Sorry about the rambling thoughts.

Hey FR you wrote that you raised BDs, did you also keep them in troughs also did you feed them rodents on the regular

So it comes down to all the information I've been taught over the years is wrong...?

I just don't understand how so many reptile books, magazines, "experts"... how they could all be wrong about UVB. I'm not arguing that you don't properly care for your animals... just that it doesn't all fit into the same puzzle.

What constitutes proper husbandry then, when I'm told that - for example - turtles will develop shell deformities over time if not provided with UVB? I was taught that they need it to process calcium.

Now, here you are, saying that it can be detrimental?

I just don't understand how so much information could be so wrong.

Again, not trying to be argumentative... I just want to know why I'm being misguided...
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Christen
ailin_ravenclaw@yahoo.com

1.1 Northern Emerald Tree Boa
1.0 Black Roughneck Monitor
0.1 Red Tail Boa

.

That little fella, the hatchling, is now about three weeks old and has doubled in size. the lite I use on the baby is a 15watt incandesent bulb. The adults have a 65 watt incandesent bulb. So I say, those that "need" UV bulbs "must" be doing something wrong. Consider, I do nothing and it comes out right. I raised the adults from very small.

What your trying not to believe is, you don't need uv bulbs. You may, if you have marginal or poor husbandry. But if you support your capitives, you do not need such things. If you believe its needed, why do you ask such a question?

Again I repeat, I have nothing against UV bulbs, its just that I started breeding reptiles in 1962(lizards) and never had a need to use them. In fact, they did not have them back then. It appears only you newbies need them. In fact, there was no suppliments either. Heck, there was no incubators or snake cages. You had to make them.

"It appears only you newbies need them." Thanks.

What your saying is fascinating... just because it means that everything I've been taught has been total bull[bleep], then. I am, to say the least, annoyed.

Out of curiosity, then... how is it detrimental? You mentioned that it could be. I was wondering if you would elaborate a little?

I respect your advice on the matter. Thanks.
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Christen
ailin_ravenclaw@yahoo.com

1.1 Northern Emerald Tree Boa
1.0 Black Roughneck Monitor
0.1 Red Tail Boa

More or less, UVA and UVB are known to cause cancer. They are deep penetrating rays. Which is why they can excite the conversion of D. at lower TEMPS. Higher temps also converts D. Higher temps also do lots of other things, immune system, etc.

UVA and B cause blindness. which by all means is harmful. But I do not think the bulbs that are sold are strong enough for anything, including the conversion of D.

Also all these animals develop methods to avoid harm from the rays of the sun. For instance, varanid skin, is suppose to stop 100% of UVA and B. Cheers

it is probably quite simple:

1. I am guessing there are a few academic studies 'proving' uvb is needed for reptiles. These were probably misrepresented and taken as fact with no qualifying information, as in yeah it's needed if you are sorely lacking in other areas of husbandry.

2. The need for uvb makes money, a lot of money. It easily adds $80-100 to every beardie sold. It's the supplies for reptiles that pet stores make money from, not the reptile, and uvb is a big part of that (hoods, bulbs). This starts back at the reptile supply companies and finishes when little Johnny and his dad are walking out with a beardie $245 later.

3. Reptile magazines are for entertainment and are financed by reptile supply companies. They have every reason not to question the need for uvb and to publish 'reports' touting it's need.

Tom

My belief is that the whole UVB arguement gets oversimplified. It is known that primates need it, but as little as 15 minutes on part of the body can be enough for weeks. There are obviously many mechanisms for aquiring sufficient calcium or animals that are primarily nocturnal would never have enough.
Keeping herps properly is kind of like practicing medicine or law. It takes a lot of experience from many different people, and practice and attention to the animals. As stated, if some aspect of the husbandry is off, you MAY be able to make up for it in other ways, i.e. full spectrum lighting.

Just my thoughts,
AH

Your type of post is reason people think this product is needed. There are always people like you that use every sorry analogy to confuse the issue.

Heres the point and its a very real long time point. I produced lots(see many other posts) They live and grow normally, they do "not" get UV bulbs of any type. My animals and results are the "cutting edge of success"(in print many years ago and still true) that is, I have been as consistantly successful as good or better then any person or institition, in the world. Again, I have never used UV bulbs. That is proof sir. And it "is" that simple.

To measure results one must have goals and results. Monitors must reach goals in order to measure a products worth, or the word "needed". in most cases the need is for the person, not the animalI have an overwelming abundance of results in growth, reproduction and longevity. I have such an abundance of results, these same academics say my results exceed nature. As in, they grow faster, produce more and live longer. Again sir, that is proof.

So I ask a very obvious question, why do others need UVB bulbs in order to attempt to simply keep an individual alive??? Sir, that is a better question. These folks that need UVB bulbs do not have results in growth, reproduction or longevity. Those academics( not scientists) never produced results, they simply took DEPLETED individuals and gave them UVB bulbs and suppliments and measured blood levels, both before and after, BUT NEVER ACHIEVED any actual goals like keeping the monitors for any lenght of time. Muchless growth, reproduction and longevity. They did not and were not growing or reproducing or kept for any lenght of time. They just played silly games, and on you.

And to jump the gun a bit, don't give me that, at the zoo we bred so and so, and we used those bulbs. That proves nothing. Did you try regular bulbs on keep all other conditions the same with those SUCCESSFUL animals??? If not, then you learned nothing. You simply used Bulb A and not tried bulb B, or C.

No offense, but I started with one type of bulb, then switched to another, then another. But as long as I kept the conditions, actual temp range etc the same, the animals performed the same. ITs not the bulbs.

Even if you were not going to say that, someone would.

Here the ACTUAL point. I can successfully Keep monitors alive and healthy with;

1. with halogen bulbs

2. with incandesent bulbs

3. with the sun

4. with Uvb bulbs

5. with no bulbs what so ever.

6. with no added heat what so ever.

7. with florescent bulbs.

So what does using UVB bulbs have to do with anything? the answer is nothing.

Also I could careless is companies make money off these bulbs. Companies are suppose to make money and provide a service. The point here is, they are NOT providing a service.

Again, a static individual montior, what most people have and what was tested, has very very very little need for calicum. When compared to, growing monitors or reproducing monitors. Those two groups are in heavy need of actual placed calicum. Of course, young growing, producing females are THE test for calicum placement.

So to test or base information of the least possible use of a product, is just awful and stupid. Sorry but after all these years, it is just stupid. This is simply a case of mass advertising overwelming facts. Which is common by the way.

Lets move to another thread, In the threat below, Jobis right. Unless these is some controls there will be no fix to all the imports dying. These controls need to be placed on the advertising companies, and promoters of useless products, not the importers. These stupid people are actively killing off tens of thousands of reptiles to sell product.

If these imports lived in any percentage above 10% muchless above 50% this country would be so overwelmed with savs and niles and waters, that there would never be a need to collect another individual of those species. And that includes for hides and meat. If they actually bred and produced offspring, the U.S. could reestablish all of africa with monitors.

The point is, imports must be disposable or they will lose market. Its like making a car the commonly lasts a million miles. If they made them and they could, there were be little need to make so many. Do the math, auto makers would sell five times less(or more). Thats not what they want. Same goes for imports and the companies that follow them. If their products worked, imports would quickly dwindle to near nothing, no need for controls there.

What needs controls is the companies doing mass advertising about products and methods that DO NOT WORK. Or provide a service.

But remember, be careful what you ask for, if there were controls and these companies had to actually prove their products provided a service(something beneficial) then the magazines would disappear, this site would disappear, many of the big reptile shows would disappear.

So as it is, we have it very nice, we are comfortable, the problem is, the animals, those poor imports and wild caughts are going to have to keep dying in droves, for us to be happey. Cheers

n/p

Frank,
I find it interesting that you post a LENGTHY monologue blasting me when I agree with you. I keep a variety of lizards and I do not own any full spectrum lighting. I use generic Wal-Mart bulbs! ( I DO like the color of full spectrum lighting, but that has nothing to do with UVB. It's just aesthetics)

I was merely thinking out loud that if a keeper's basic husbandry is off somewhere that the use of the lighting may be of benefit. It's better to fix the problem, but if someone couldn't nail the problem down, it's a quick fix. You said band-aid. Same thing. I am agreeing with you.

In one of my first responses to you, I mentioned that I was a rogue when I started at the zoo. I used to bump heads with supervisors because I didn't do things the ways they were used to. I learned my own way by doing and seeing what worked on my own before being employed by zoos. Yes. Some animals died along the way. Nothing any of us are proud of. Yes. There were/are successes. I think you have me pegged wrong.

AH

State your point clearly for us dummies. Like, ITS NOT NEEDED. PERIOD. Look up the word "need".

While your beating around the bush with analogies that can be taken in many ways, monitors are dying(is that a little too dramatic??? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Sorry If I took you wrong, but the point is, its not about me or you. ITs about HUNDREDS of thousands of dying monitors dying, and needlessly dying.

No offense, but the first ten years of me doing this, I had faith that everyone could easily learn to keep monitors healthy, which means they will breed. Then the next five years I started losing faith in you keepers. Now, I am begining to think our government is actively De-educating people in order to control them. They stop teaching biology in order to have the masses not care about the world we live in.

But then, thats a different rant.

Its this simple, HEATUM AND FEEDUM. how hard is that. Oh yes, heatum does not mean, heat to X degree, it means allow them to choose the heat they want and need, when they want and need it. Its actually very simple. FEEDUM does not sound all that difficult. IT means feedum until they say its enough or at least 50% of that.

Hmmmmmmmmmm I feed around 50% of what they want and I am doing better then most. How sad.

Something to notice, see how I go spastic on you guys, thats what you guys do to monitors. They are simple, A, B, C, your done. OK, you all must be over educated, hahahahahaha What does that mean, your too smart to do something simple. All in all, thats not called smart, thats called dumb.

Its like them PHD's calling me REALLY GOOD at this and then saying I know nothing about it. All the while they know everything, but fail to be able to do the least little thing. They struggle to get ONE clutch or even a pair to live together. DUDE, themesessss folks iss backwards.

Yes, I get sick and tired of all these monitors being murdered. Cheers

It's funny that you mention teaching biology, because that is what I do. I have not worked in the zoo field since 2001 after becoming "aware" of some things that I was naive about initially.
As far as being clear, I made no statement endorsing the lights. My whole post was only a few sentences long. What I say is what I mean and nothing else. I am not some teenager playing games. I came on here to learn, but I have not read too much that I didn't already know. All the attitude on here appears to be nothing more than primitive mammalian "pissing contests". I am too old to care about marking territory anymore.

AH

You surly don’t need to make territory, just be part of the pack and stop farting higher then the rest of us primitive beings.
We threw attitude and pride out the window long ago, no need for those here, words on a screen will not hurt you unless you let them.

Then you would understand my response and the reality of our posts.

I stated, this was not about you NOR I, its about all those beginers who read these posts. And sir, its been like that for a very long time.

For instance, Jobi and I carried on a long drawn out war a few years ago. He and I realized, our war was a tremendous method to get others involved. And bring out lots of information. The problem was, we had no idea how envolved they would get. Or how polarized they would get.

For instance, for every post on KS, I would guess there are two hundred lurkers(hits)(those who read but do not post). So in effect, if I use you as a catalyst for US(you and I) to get a point across, then why would you be upset? You state your no, beginer or whatever, then what harm can come for us to agree and get this subject in the forefront? You did say you agreed didn't you? So why be upset? Cheers

Who said I was upset? I merely said I found it interesting that we agreed and you went on with a long monologue. Once again, that is what I mean when I say I am too old for the contests. I ended my post there with no other comments. If I were upset, I would have written things indicating as such.

While I am here, I do have a question. I realize that longevities may not mean much to some folks, but I am curious as to expected/suspected age limits of ackies. Anyone have any interesting numbers? Just curious.

AH

I feel longevity is very important in context. That is, first a reptile must achieve life events then the time can be measured.

For instance, many of the longevity records are of snakes that were fed four to eight times a year, never grew up(dwarfed) and never produced offspring. That is more torture then longevity.

Also longevity in females is something I would be interested in. Unfortunately, there are no records of such.

I have an ackie that I got as a young adult in 1991, that is sixteen years and counting. Its a male and has spawned many many generations. Cheers

FR - May I ask how old your oldest female is and how old she was reproductive. I have an old pair of ackies that were given to me as the female's reproductivity dropped. I do not know her exact age as there were several owners, but she has been reproductive for at least 10 years. She moves slower and slower each year. The male has remained more vigorous in comparison.

Thanks,
AH

Frank this is something I tot about doing, testing the products doing the most damage and confronting the manufacturers on these forums.
Of course some will no dough be blasted to king don come, but others could improve there products or offer better guidance in there uses.

Then perhaps confronting some dealers ethic, not to be rude or anything but simply to change old mentalities and find better options.

Why not? It can’t be worst then having super star guest answering the same old questions over and over? That’s no interview, its deja view!
Rgds

The need for UV is also nonsense as far as turtles are concerned. I keep and breed spotted turtles. I have just received my first second generation breeding from animals that I hatched and raised to adulthood. They have never come in contact with UV. They have not had any shell issues at all or other health problems that will supposedly occur without the use of uv. They were raised indoors with incandescent floodlights. I have also raised bearded dragons and veiled chameleons (generations of each) without uv. It is a marketing scam, plain and simple. As Frank stated, calcium placement is related to an adequate diet and usable heat as apposed to a spectrum of light.

Oh, to keep with the forum topic, my monitors have also never had any uv lights and they have grown to adulthood very quickly without any problems to speak of. They were raised on dusted crickets and mice exclusively. Good luck.

Will

I have to agree with Frank. I don't know monitors but I've kept and bred various species of turts and torts for almost 30 years now and never used UVB. I don't get shell abnormalities in the growing young. He's absolutely right. Heat um and feed um.

To add more, I heard all this and that about Chams. At one time my wife decided to give Veils a go(a long time ago) I build all these wonderful cages. And of course they bred like flys.

Then to raise them up. I placed them in my raise up cages for monitors. These cages have the lites IN THE CAGES. The dang chams would wrap around the lite bulb and get really hot. The results were, they grew like weeds and started doing things like eating fuzzies and mice. Without problem.

They of cousre grew up and lay billions of eggs, ok thats stretching it a bit, millions of eggs. Cheers

Hello Frank,
This is off the monitor topic but we used your light(heat) in cage for panthers and veileds and grew them to adult size in three months! They didn't seem to truly mature(show interest in the opposite sex) until a bit later but HOLY COW! We were "floored" at the growth! Best to you- Mike

Hey FR,

I really appreciate all of the information you're so kindly offering. I'm not trying to sound sarcastic; I'm being genuine. I want to do the best I can for my monitor, which is why I took the time to ask, read all the responses, be upset by it and wonder why I was told these things to begin with.

I do still want to know how the UV is detrimental, if you would be so kind as to respond. If it's something that will/can possibly harm my Rudi, I'd really appreciate knowing.

Also... What do you think proper husbandry for a Rudi consists of? It's my duty to know as much as I can about the animal I'm housing, and if I'm doing something wrong, I want to correct it.

What would you say the heat ranges should be? Etc...

Sincerely interested,
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Christen
ailin_ravenclaw@yahoo.com

1.1 Northern Emerald Tree Boa
1.0 Black Roughneck Monitor
0.1 Red Tail Boa

Any other monitor. All monitors benefit from the same conditions, in CAPTIVITY. That is a choice of temps, from average room temps on the cooler areas(very handy) to a basking area around 135F.

The basking area temps are read on the surface not air temps. Reptiles of all kinds do not care(understand) about air temps, they care about mass temps. That is the temperature of the area they are in and on.

Your rudi like all monitors eat about anything. Mice are proven to exceed all dietary needs. Of course you can add other whole food items if you wish. But stay away for partial foods, meats, canned crap, turkey, etc. Oh except if its a whole turkey(chick)

Always remember YOUR rudi is the subject, not anything anybody tells you or what you read. Reptiles respond to the conditions they are in. And yours in ONLY in your conditions. Therefore will only repond in your own unique way. Do not make it fit a book or recipe, but make the book or recipe fit it. Your cannot change the monitor, but you can change the information someone told you.

It appears science forgot the above(the rudi is the subject) and science thinks it knows what the rudi is, better then the rudi.

About species, science has really screwed this one up. They WANT all species to be different, and they are, but not that much and not in captivity. Science(actually poor science) wants each species to be unique, which is wonderful, but its bit like different car types around the world. They all are about the same, some are automatic, some not. Some steer on the left some on the right, heck some steel hauling trucks steer in the middle. Some are desiel, some use petrol. Heck some are even electric now. But all in all, they all drive the same. To build them(science) they have different parts, to drive them, they are again about the same. Remember, your driving your monitor, not building it. Science forgot this.

The big difference is size, the big ones can eat bigger things and withstand more torture(our poor conditions) The little ones dehydrate faster. They cannot withstand so much torture. Ones from consistant enviornmets(wet areas), cannot withstand dehydration, ones for arid lands can. But in captivity, you shouldn't be dehydrating any species or individual.

About temps, its not about species, but about size, little ones can cool off faster(less mass to surface ratio) so they can take hotter temps. Larger ones cannot take as much heat(larger mass) cannot cool off quickly.

Water type monitors can and do take more heat, even the larger ones because, they can cool off quickly(jump in the water) Arid land monitors can only go underground, therefore large ones do not have an effiecent method to cool off.

In captivity, you do not have to worry about any of that. Give them a choice and let them decide and they will happily do so.

This my friend is where science falls flat on its collective face. They somehow think they know more about the animal then the animal does. And inspite of their near complete total failure to keep them in captivity. And odd set of circumstances if you ask me. They know it all, but fail at it all. I guess they got a A in class, but failed lab.

So I guess in that, there is some reason why you were told how NOT to keep monitors. But all in all it falls on your shoulders. And with your rudi. That is reality and there will be results.

In the old days I liked attitudes like yours, you know, I will do anything to get it right. Then after the years go by and I watched so many with that attitude fall flat on their faces, I changed, I actually hate that attitude now.

Those who want the BEST, often fail. I now understand why. They forget to just get something that works, even barely. You got to start with something that barely works, before you think your going for the best. If your a newbie, how do you know what is the best, you have no FFFFFF in, way to know what the best is.

So don't worry about the best, start with workable, then if you do well, improve a little at a time. your monitor will express the best results, not you.

Not to brag, but I have allowed the best results for over a decade and a half without ever worrying about knowing anything or trying for the best. And that dang science is still ramming their heads into their collective walls(failing). How would have thought science could be so dumb. I know, this is awful bold of me to say this, but guezzzzz, its been 17 years of great success and science is still ramming their heads into the wall, trying to tell a living animals what it is. Then, in 17 years, you would think they would simply copy me and reproduce the same results. Hmmmmmmmmm science is too egotistical to cheat. hahahahahahaha. which makes them even dumber. I also have been ranting like this for a decade or more and they still keep ramming their heads into the wall. The more I have success the more they ram their heads, hmmmm they are running out of walls.

That ramming is what gives you that false information. They are too bean headed to actually ask the animal what it is, they have to tell it.

OK, I apologise, I am using science(being pragmatic) they are not using science, they are simply bookworms reguritating garbage over and over. Thats why i call them false science. Science is to ask questions. Then recieve results. REPEATABLE RESULTS. These squeaky wheel scientists, ask the questions, but forgot to get results, sir, thats not science.

In simple terms, I hatched four species this week, that is more then any science guy in the world(how sad) thats not bragging, its simply results of an approach. And that sir is science. Cheers

ps, remember, to always keep your monitors as the center, not what anybody says. Your monitor will always tell the truth. But sometimes the truth hurts.

If all of the things you mentioned were proper husbandry in your post, I'm already doing it.

So what am I worrying about, then? He can bask at 135, and he can cool down at around 75-80 on the opposite side of his enclosure. He has a huge tub to soak in - which he uses frequently - and I keep a close eye on his bedding. He eats everything under the sun, but mice and chicks make up most of it. Horned worms and crickets are among the other more frequent food items offered.

I guess my attitude about wanting to do the best isn't as bad as you think it is. I've done my reading; I just wanted to compare notes.
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Christen
ailin_ravenclaw@yahoo.com

1.1 Northern Emerald Tree Boas
1.0 Black Roughneck Monitor
0.1 Red Tail Boa

again, like i explained, your jumping ahead of yourself.

You do not know if your husbandry is good, the reason is, you have no results. Its an ongoing process that will need to be adjusted as you go. Its never right, its always trying to support right.

Also monitors "do not live in the open" they live in things. Like in burrows, or in burrows in trees, or both, in burrows that start in a hollow and go down into the root systems. That is where they live. Not where they hide.

So for your temps to be effective, they should also include cool temps in holes and burrows and of course warm to hot temps in holes and burrows. That is about ten thousand times for important then any temp on any side of a cage.

I will use a tiny example. I live in the desert, and I have five acres. There are about 2000 reptiles on my property. Yet on a nice spring day like today, I may see twenty or so individuals. Its that way if all reptile habitats.

What that means is, they live in, much more then they live on. Like a gopher(the mammal). Going to breakfast, cheers

He does do a lot of burrowing. The bedding I use doesn't allow him to make tunnels, but he definitely buries himself and digs underneath certain parts of the cage.
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Christen
ailin_ravenclaw@yahoo.com

1.1 Northern Emerald Tree Boas
1.0 Black Roughneck Monitor
0.1 Red Tail Boa