Reptile & Amphibian Forums

These are the most reoccurring issues on this forum, seems like all posts are in some way related to them?
What I find funny is these posts always end up in conflict or as dead ends, why?
Really I need to understand why the peoples asking these questions fail to understand something so simple?

Let me put in down in simple words, no if or buts!

Facts; heat allows the absorption of calcium!
Facts; UV bulbs other then providing some heat, have nothing to do with UV absorption!
Facts; chlorinated water not only kills your lizards but leads to osteoporosis by preventing calcium absorption!
Facts; a combination or wormers and chlorinated water is a sure way to kill your lizards!
Facts; well heated and fed lizards have almost never any problems with parasites.
Facts; if your to darn lazy to research any of the above, don’t keep live animals!
Tips; always use ceramic, stainless, glass water bowls, plastic is a magnet for toxins!
Tips; plastic is ok as feed bowls!
Tips; keep a filtered water tank for your water needs!
Tips; ask more questions, that’s what these boards are meant for!
Tips; dont listen to me, do your own reserch!

Hahaha!
I really like your last tip, even i don't follow it most of the time.
Take care, old Pawanan!

With a few of your "facts" and a few of your "tips" but overall, we both have heard this before(i wonder where?) And I totally agree with the overall intent of your post. Its a wonder how ignorant people can stay for so very long. This stuff is old stuff. I get the feeling its not about the information, I get the feeling its about the times. People do not "want" to understand and feel the animals. The reason is self-protective. They do not want to learn about things that will be gone. But thats another story.

You could add,
fact and tip, K.I.S.S., keep it simple stupid

fact and tip, common sense wins over misguided information or misguided out of context education.

Fact and tip, realtime successful experience wins over theory. The tip, go with results not words.

fact and tip, the animal is the subject, not the recipe or articule or book. They are only to help understand the subject, BUT ARE CLEARLY not the subject. tip, believe the animal.

fact, academics do not have an actual subject(the real monitor) so their subject is what is the written word. Please look up the many difinitions of academic. As in, academics are academic when it comes to living animals. Their world is the word, not the animal.

fact and tip, The academics subject has wandered off into never neverland, a very long time ago. Which leads you back to the real tip, do not take that stuff so seriously. As in, folks who talk and read about living monitors, but do not partake in, or are successful at, are merely academic.

Fact, do not listen to academics, when you can listen to someone who is actually doing what your interested in. Whatever the actual subject or goal.
The TIP, ask yourself why you would believe in someone who only talks(writes) and does not do. This one is "on" the person looking for information, not the authors.

Advanced facts, animals do not live by the word, they live by behaviors(actions) which make them non-academic by definition.

Yea, I do not know about plastic water bowls, been using them forever. Or chlorinated water, been using that forever, never had a problem with them. Or wormers, never used that, so I do not know about them. I do have my suspisions, but that is not "fact". I do not think they are a good thing.

Other then that, getty up cowboy, throw down on those red bandanas. Lets skin that smoke wagon, I'll be your huckleberry(tombstone). Cheers

Fact: Do not ask for advice, for you will surely be treated like a moron.

Thanks guys.
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Christen
ailin_ravenclaw@yahoo.com

1.1 Northern Emerald Tree Boas
1.0 Black Roughneck Monitor
0.1 Red Tail Boa

np

Well I guess your right when you post something like that, that is moronic.

Heres the point, no one called anyone a moron. At least not until way down a long thread when its no longer about monitors.

What happens is, many feel like a moron, because they did not know, what they thought they knew. They are told something totally different then what they expected or wanted to hear. Of course that makes them feel, not so smart. But surely do not blame the ones trying to help you.

But its not my fault or others with experience. What would you have me or others do. Act like we know nothing? Talk down to you? or treat you like an equal? I treat people like an equal and let them/you work it out. Often, they get all moronic, so I guess some think not having experience with monitors makes them less of a person. I did not know that being good at monitors made me a better person. I kinda thought it made me odd, and no more.

A friends husband was roping a week or so ago, and got pitched. Well it tore his arse up, literally destoryed his hip bones and tore his guts up. While in the waiting room as he returned from his second major surgery, his relatives found out I worked with snakes and lizards. They thought I was crazy for doing so. I explained, I never fell off a dang snake/lizard and broke my bum. Yes as one who likes reptiles, I do understand we are the odd ones out.

The truth is, there are far to many of you(newbies) to treat you all as individuals(I do know you are) but you all come with the same exact questions, and are surprised your wrong in the same exact way, and many like you react like someone called you names.

Being inexperienced is not a bad name, its a state of learning. You are NEW, WHY do you expect to be right? Then what ives you the impression that you should understand and agree with someone with thousands of times your experience? Well, I hate to tell you, that would be a very very rare thing. It could happen, but don't bet on it.

When a inexperienced person gains experience, they move from that state and into another state, one with experience. I am positive that single person would not agree with his old self. I am hoping I do not argee with me, by next year.

In fact, this happens all the time, a newbie comes here, listens to whats said, then requritates it to the next newbies, and guess what? They whine at that person about the same things and in the same way your doing.

Lastly, you criticise me, yet whos worse, me who tries to help you, or you who attacks a helping hand. Well you may be right, I do think its moronic to criticise those that are only looking out for the welfare of your monitor.(your responsibility)Remember I recieve no benefit from trying to help you or others. Cheers

I didn't even read your entire response.

All I mean is that the whole tone of all of your "help" kept going back to sounding like you were talking down to me. Whether or not it was intentional, it was there.

It made me want to shrug my shoulders and go someplace more helpful. And by helpful, I mean going someplace where somebody would explain the science behind what they were saying, what they were doing *instead* of "band-aid" UVB, etc. All I got here was, "I don't use UVB because I don't need it. FEEDUM AND HEATUM."

That's not helpful.

Thanks.
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Christen
ailin_ravenclaw@yahoo.com

1.1 Northern Emerald Tree Boas
1.0 Black Roughneck Monitor
0.1 Red Tail Boa

Thats sad, because that statement is more helpful then you know. You may not understand it, but its very very accurate and VERY successful when applied properly(consider, all things must be applied properly)

You see, you not going to get a "pill" that will cure all ills. Your going to have to work a little at a time, until you understand, what your doing. Not read what your doing.

In the case of heatum and feedum, thats all you have to do to START the ball rolling. Cheers

No, you're not getting the point. I can't believe you CAN NOT understand what I'm TRYING so hard to get through your obviously thick skull.

I'm not asking for a magical, mystical pill that will "FEEDUM AND HEATUM". I'm frankly not that stupid.

What YOU don't understand is that I AM working at this a "little at a time". I'm figuring things out as I go, but I was asking for some advice.

Listen carefully, because I don't want to have to repeat myself again:

I wanted only to understand WHY you don't feel UVB is necessary, or even detrimental. I wanted a reasonable, scientific explanation of your stance. I didn't want to hear, "HEATUM AND FEEDUM". I wanted to hear, "Blank temperatures seem to work for me because ____. Blank food seems to have enough calcium, blah blah blah."

I wish that this hadn't gotten so far out of control, but I'm really starting to understand why everyone I talk to says to avoid this place. I thought I'd give you guys a chance. You surely MUST have SOME sort of knowledge on reptiles, or I wouldn't have heard about kingsnake to begin with, right?

And not to sound like I'm talking down to you - because heaven knows you haven't done that to me! - but when you're trying to insult/humiliate/educate someone, you may want to consider using proper spelling and grammar.

Have a nice day, FR. Smile. It helps, you know.
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Christen
ailin_ravenclaw@yahoo.com

1.1 Northern Emerald Tree Boas
1.0 Black Roughneck Monitor
0.1 Red Tail Boa

...LMAO. Couldn't resist.

...some people take stuff too personally.....lighten up

Hahahahahahahahahahaha I'am rubber your glue, what you say to me bounces off and sticks on you.

Sir, your not getting it. I do not have to get it, I actually know(got) this and have done this for many years. Which makes you the one with the thick skull. you want me to tell you something thats wrong. "Forget about it"

Sir, Its not this temp and that temp, type of thing. And sir, heatum and feedum works. But hey, why should I help someone who calls me names.

Its funny, but just a few minutes ago, I dug up a clutch from a female I hatched ten, twelve years ago. That makes me think you need to ask better questions. You see, my thick skull is thick from success, not wondering what will work. I just posted the pics on our site. Go look, then go find someone else to help you. Cheers

Can’t post on your site! Must be banned?

I tried a similar approach with a female blue head, she nested under a board (if we can call this nesting?) she nested yesterday, other lizards are hatching now! Always something going on.
Your female looks awesome!

You're right...it is everyone else's job to hold your hand and tell you exactly what to do. That's what places like petsmart and petco are for. They'll tell you exactly why you need UVB producing bulbs, and they'll also show you where they keep their most expensive ones.

Or you could just take advice that was given to you by someone much more knowledgeable than yourself and eventually learn to find what works instead of crying to someone when things aren't working out.

P.S. FR is right, you know.

Unfortunately you are right, peoples are much to concern about there little persons to have any concern about a stupid lizard.

Of course the concern starts when the lizard start dieing, then its help me my lizard is not feeding. This is when we are obligated to help, at least that’s what these keepers think. Then if we offer help, these keepers feel guilty or stupid and say we treat them like MORONS.

We are the morons for trying to help!
Hahaha what can I say?

The "help" is better utilized in the begining, then near the end. But then as you say, its their pride that gets in the way. Cheers

I don't recall saying my monitor was dying, not feeding, or even looking even REMOTELY unhealthy in any way, shape or form.

I'm not sure how that got warped.
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Christen
ailin_ravenclaw@yahoo.com

1.1 Northern Emerald Tree Boas
1.0 Black Roughneck Monitor
0.1 Red Tail Boa

Hers your problem, you bring everything back to you, its not.
You feel like a moron because that’s what you are, final.
Not my problem, get lost.

Wow! it is true! there realy are entire soap scenes on the monitor forum! Some friends told me if i wanted a good laugh,this is the place to be! HA,they were not lying! This is even better than Big Brother, go frank go!

Thank god I don,t need advice about monitors, I only keep snakes....

And who might be your friends, so we can have a good laugh too?

Don,t worry jobi-wan, we,ve already read it all! When i asks for advice about snakes from an experienced keeper,he just tells me what works for him when he had the same problem. That,s it! But the old guy here is just not aible to do that...

There is good reason, snakes are SIMPLE, as in, A,B,C and your done. As in, caresheets work. The problem is, monitors are not SNAKES and appear to not be so simple. If they were, everyone would have been breeding them for a very long time, And commonly.

Which does not appear to be the case. Monitors appear to be more attuned to behavior then conditions. That is, once normal decent conditions are met, that is the begining of the problems, not the end. For snakes, that is the end.

Of course there is much more, as an old guy, I understand the first snakes were not very easy either, they had some behavioral problems and of course we did not have caresheets. So the first snakes were difficult. I remember having a talk with some other old folks, the Barkers. We were discussing when Blood pythons and Ball pythons were hard to breed.

Now, 99% of snakes are long term captive lines. Which means that most of their genetic behavioral memory is GONE. They have become domestic. Hey go try to breed wild mice. Like catch some from one place and breed them to some from another place. That would give you an idea of what I am talking about. Mice are easy to breed, but will wild mice be easy to breed?

Back to monitors. There are very very few longterm captive lines. And yes, those that exsist are far easier to breed then wild caught individuals. But, as you can see, monitor breeding is rare, no matter what is being attempted.

For instance how many different folks actually hatched a monitor on this forum in the last year?????? Then compare that to how many different folks hatched a snake on all the snake forums. Hmmmmmmmmm my bet is, more different will people hatch a snake in the next month, then all the people in the history of breeding monitors. In fact, more snake breeders will hatch a snake on a givin day, then monitor breeders in the history of breeding monitors, IN THE WHOLE WORLD.

Which means this, monitors are not snakes and monitor breeders are a million miles behind snake breeders in that area of keeping. With that in mind, of friggin course explaining the hows and whys is DIFFERENT.

If you were to ask my how to breed a snake, I would say, go read a caresheet. The reason is, that would work. Obviously caresheets do not work for monitors, as there are lots of caresheets and very little breeding. Cheers and I hope you find a brain or use the one you got.