Reptile & Amphibian Forums

First of all I want to say this is not the fault of the reptile importer that I was dealing with its actually the shippers fault UPS.I was supposed receive 0.5 normal balls on friday before 10:30 pm they never showed. I payed for overnight shipping and the reptile dealer properly delivered the animals to UPS and thats where all the problems started , first UPS told me that they someone forgot to scan my live animal overnight package thats why it was missed and did not go out, than they told me that there was a huge storm in Texas . So I asked them why didnt I still have my package today ? they could have shipped them overnight yesterday and arrived today , they could not tell me, they actually told me that I want get the package now until monday. So now I have 0.5 normal balls sitting somewhere in kentucky in a UPS wharehouse until I get them monday I hope , so that means that these snakes will be in abox for over four days,I am very worried now that they will not survive , I know the weather is pretty warm but I dont know if they where packed for this long a trip. I am very displeased with UPS.Has anyone else had this problem with them , I would reccomend you all using a diffrent shipper besides UPS, I will never want any animals I receive from anyone coming through their system this is unexcusable and the customer service was horrible. I just hope all my snakes get here and survive this nightmare.

UPS HAS LOST MORE PACKAGES OF MINE THAN I HAVE EVER RECIEVED INNNNNNNNNNN MYYYYYYYYYYY LIIIIIIIIIIIIFE

We have shipped literally thousands of animals thru UPS and have had exactly ONE problem.
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AMAZON REPTILE CENTER

NAMED BEST REPTILE STORE IN LOS ANGELES

Wow I can only imagin how stressed how stressed you must be.. I hope it all works out in the end, let us know monday how it works out..

I have gotten stuff from EBay from UPS and DHL over the years and even the US mail......all packages got here.....

some people just SAY they placed the package with the shipper and keep your money.......ball world really sucks...

know your dealers.....
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It doesn't matter which shipping company is used, there will always be times when a package goes missing, doesn't get scanned, somebody forgets to put it on the plane etc. It could be incompetence at one depot that messes the whole thing up. There are many areas of failure in any delivery system.

The breeder drops it off at a depot, they label, scan and it all gets picked up and brought to a sorter, then it all gets sorted, put on trucks/planes and brought to the local depot to the receiver...gets sorted again, put on a local delivery van (or another plane or truck, where it is brought to the next destination, sorted, etc.) till brought to the door of the receiver. If somebody decides to take a coffee break or smoke break, forgets to put the package onto the leaving plane/truck..it gets delayed, Or if sometime gets put on top so the label isn't seen and the loader can't find it, assumes he put it on the truck already..then it gets forgotten till discovered later...

Thus, it is a risk to ship live animals anywhere. Though we tend to talk more about the mix ups, the missed shippings etc. then all those that arrive safely and on time, so it seems more people have troubles than successes.

I only had snakes shipped to me once and they did arrive without a hitch. Arrived next day, were packaged well (though the box seemed exceedingly huge to me... for just two baby ball pythons, they came in a box I would expect to get a 17" CRT monitor in).

I have had some problems with getting bugs shipped to me though. Either the delivery driver couldn't find my address or they always arrived during that 30 min window I happen to be out of the house. But I was able to pick them up at the local drop off point later the same day and no harm done.
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PHLdyPayne

If they were in good health and properly packed then they should survive the trip - make sure that you hydrate them well when you get them.

Unfortunately this isn't an uncommon occurrence - for future reference - its best not to receive animals on Fridays if it can be helped - it avoids the animals having to sit in the shippers facility over the weekend if something like this happens.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

That is good advice, just got off work and the dealer was very apologetic and frustated like am with UPS , its not there fault though and he promised to make things right if the unthinkable happens but I will keep my fingers crossed and think positive and hope for the best , the good part is that it is warm and not hot so I hope they make it.

>>If they were in good health and properly packed then they should survive the trip - make sure that you hydrate them well when you get them.
>>
>>Unfortunately this isn't an uncommon occurrence - for future reference - its best not to receive animals on Fridays if it can be helped - it avoids the animals having to sit in the shippers facility over the weekend if something like this happens.
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>>Tosha
>> JET Pythons

Very good point. This is one of the reasons I only ship Mon-Wed.
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Jay A. Martin
Jay Martin Reptiles

just happened to us with chondros, shipped fri for sat delivery.. they didnt get delivered and showed up monday fine.. They were packed real well tho.

I dont like to ship thurs or later becaus if they dont get delivered it will be the weekend and wont be to you until monday at the earliest.

Best advice is to only ship (ups, fedex, dhl and airline) one monday-wed only.. Never ship laer in the week.

Ive had problems with all the airlines and with all the over night services.. But overall for companies that dont specialize in live animals (they dont have trucks or wharehouses that are designed to ouse animals) they do pretty good.

If you ship early in week, if they dont get to you the next day like supposed to, then more than likely you will get them the day after and the animals will be fine..

balls are pretty tough, im sur ethey will be fine.. they are sitting in a building and they arent being thrown around or anything. They are just sitting. Coming from africa they are packed in bags a day or two before shipping, then takes around 36-48 hours to get to the US. SO I think you will be fine!!

Beau

I've had two snakes come in dead. One...the package was all beat to heck. I got a refund from the shipper...even though it wasn't his fault. He was incredibly professional about it.

Another one was the shippers fault. The kid stuffed the snake in a sock...tied the end...threw it in a box with very little shredded newspaper...and shipped it.
I told him it arrived dead, and he told me to mail it back to him.
So I did...
he said it never arrived, and refused to refund me.
Never did business with him again.

Stuff happens. Luckily I've had excellent luck with all the rest of my snakes.
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

good luck.......it hasn't been that warm........better have heat pakc and styrofoam shipping boxes......never ship at the end of a week.......noone (at shippers)cares where your package is stuck on a sunday......balls are tuff, but they are just critters .....
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Why did you ship UPS,I thought that they didnt ship snakes....
Kevin
{url]www.KMSReptiles.com[/url]

I got a pack of 50 ch last night they where shiped direct flight all animals are you can track them every min and you can look it up on there web site where the plain is at that min its great...my 9 lb package was 46.35 and if something happens there on the next flight.. but they don't come to your door you have to go to the air port

That seems the way to go , dealers, breeders , importers and exporters should carefully screen their shippers and make sure that they are a right match for their business.

I didnt the dealer I bought them from does,I AM THE CUSTOMER.

I'm Hearing you "dougle" You didn't ship them and they were not shipped Friday.. And they were shipped UPS which Is Legal.. Its USPS that you can't ship Snakes Through.. And they went out over night next day air through UPS not USPS for Friday 10:30am..!!! Right.?It's like no one really read what you said. LOL. I know its not funny and i would be upset but they should arrive Monday and still being ok,I would think.
Their should have been a tracking Number of some kind to track this shipment. I know allot of People that ship U.P.S. and have for years. I've heard of Problems with certain branches,but no horror story's. I think all of the shippers have problems once in a blue Moon ,But maybe Fed-ex is the best. I hope your baby balls are OK when they come Monday.

Greg VanZweden

http://www.vanzwedenreptiles.com/

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Forever Trust in what we are,and nothing else Matters

Thanks alot for listening you are right UPS does and can and will send live animals such as snaks and USPS does not how do I know because I work for the post office, thanks again for hearing me out completly.

UPS's live animal policy:

Accepted / Prohibited Live Animals
Accepted Live Animals

This is a comprehensive list of live animals accepted for transportation. Shippers are prohibited from shipping any animal not listed here, and all other live animals will not be accepted for transportation. The following live animals are accepted for transportation unless poisonous, venomous, and/or a Threatened or Endangered Species.

* Amphibians (All): Examples: frogs, salamanders, toads
* Crustaceans (All): Examples: crabs, crawfish, lobsters, shrimp
* Fish (All)
* Insects (Limited to beneficial insects only): Examples: bees, butterflies, crickets, lady bugs
* Mollusks (All): Examples: clams, mussels, snails
* Reptiles (Limited to the following):
- Lizards: Examples: chameleons, geckos, iguanas, monitors, flying dragons
- Turtles: freshwater turtles (except: snapping turtles), land tortoises, sea turtles
* Worms (All)

Prohibited Live Animals

Live Animals that are prohibited from being shipped and are not accepted for transportation include, but are not limited to:

* Any poisonous, venomous or threatening animal
* Any Threatened or Endangered species
* Arachnids (All): Examples: mites, scorpions, spiders, ticks
* Birds (All)
* Crocodiles (All): Examples: alligators, caimans, gavials
* Mammals (All)
* Obnoxious Insects: Examples: flies, locusts, mosquitoes, roaches, termites, weevils
* Snakes (All): venomous and non-venomous

It is illegal to ship USPS - you can go to jail - it is against policy to ship UPS - they can confiscate your package. If they "don't know" whats in the package it is not being shipped per Lacey Act and if caught the shipper and receiver are subject to jail time and fines. YES this does happen to people in this industry. DON'T TAKE STUPID CHANCES WITH YOUR SNAKES! Ship them via the two carriers that are willing to ship snakes Fed Ex and Delta and don't ship any later that Wednesday for Thursday delivery.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

I bought a snake from a guy in South Carolina 2 or 3 years ago. He shiped it DHL and marked the box in huge letters LIVE SNAKE INSIDE... I still got the package and it was on time.

ALOT of people ship DHL and UPS... Ive bought from some pretty big names and have gotten them delivered from these carriers, marked "crystal", "glass"..etc..

Ive called about this and some of the shipping reps. wernt even aware of this poicy..some others new the policy and one lady on the phone was like EWW...snakes...NO WAY!!

I think alot of people get sanctimonious about things like this and other topics on this forum sometimes...

Not everyone, but alot of people are thatway. In my opinion.

Sanctamosity aside - there is a policy in place at UPS prohibiting the shipping of snakes. By shipping through them you are putting your animals in jeopardy as they do have a right to confiscate your package. It does happen and people should be aware of this - there are no exceptions, special accounts or grandfather clauses to this policy - this is from information I received straight from from UPS corporate.

As an industry that desperately needs to be to be legitimized and take seriously - encouraging people to go against laws and policies and skirt the issues that apply to our industry - doesn't say much for us. Especially when it's just as easy to do it the right way. JMO
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Again I did ship anything through UPS the dealer I bought them from did , you need to really read the post and stick to the facts, this is not complicated at all please dont make it so , again he told me he would send by UPS, or DHL plain and simple, as a good business person it is evryones responsibilities to make sure that their customers receive their snakes safely and legal end of discussion please dont try to instruct about the legalality of this situations if you are not a lawyer, thanks for your reponse good info though!

correction

Again I did not etc .

I think you you need to take a breath and re-read the posts:

No one is accusing you of shipping UPS - we understand that you are the buyer not the shipper. However you were given the choice of two companies that don't allow shipping of snakes - I would have taken my business elsewhere - JMO - you have every right to do what you want.

By breaking the companies shipping policy neither you nor the shipper have any rights to refunds from UPS because your shipment did not arrive as scheduled. Sorry that is the fact - they legally owe you nothing. The shipper on the other hand still remains responsible for getting those animals to you safely - he is the one you need to take issue with.

And as someone that has done the appropriate research, legal and otherwise, on all aspects of my hobby/business I am fairly well versed in this issue - and ignorance of the law does not preclude you from being responsible - yes if you (or your seller) ship your animals against Lacey Act standards BOTH of you can be federally prosecuted irregardless of what you knew or had control of.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

UPS has a;ready agreed to give me a refund so that issue is closed , you quoting all of these diffrent laws is really a waste of time the legal system is a very complex one and I dont think you are qualified to sit here on this thread and play judge and try to interpet it in this situation, I am just hoping to get my balls safely tommorrow, and again read the post carefully the dealer did not give me a choice of shippers he informed me that they used UPS ,DHL for shipping period! you are really taking this personal , its all about the balls .

Dude - chill out - you are the one taking this personally and it's not about you. I am not "quoting laws" I posted UPS's policy that implicitly states UPS "does not ship snakes" - by violating their terms of services you are entitled to nothing from them - if you want to accept their refund then thats up to you and your karma. By the way - why is UPS refunding you? You did not pay them? Why isn't your vendor refunding you and taking care of the UPS headache?

Unlike you I generally pass along my experience and knowledge impartially. If you want to remain ignorant thats your grave to dig. I'm glad there are some people that got some useful information along the way.

Now where is that damn ignore button I'm getting tired of your constant rambling.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Unbelievable...

To quote you Tosha:

"I am getting tired of your constant ramblings."

That was a little uncalled for. Your reply shows a lack of tact.
Perhaps you are not as correct as you thought you were.
You seem to be the only one on here who is taking anything personally.

He was merely concerned about the animals welfare.
He did not blame anyone...but only stated that the seller chose UPS. The mistake was made by UPS. Dougle nor the seller broke any policies or made any mistakes. You CAN ship via UPS...they are on par with FedEx as far a quality of service.

UPS should and will very likely give a refund on this one.
No policy was broken. They do their best...humans make mistakes. We could all share stories about EVERY shipping company.
Perhaps Dougle was just looking for a little support from friends on the board? Or maybe possible solutions to the problem. I do not know Dougle...but I hope the snakes are able to rehydrate and do well for him. I can sympathize with a stressful shipping fiasco.
I sent a Caramel Albino Retic via Delta Dash...it got stuck in Atlanta and was delayed. (I have heard that if you die, your spirit has to go thru Atlanta just to get to Heaven...or where ever you are going? LOL.)

As a side note...I am sure there are quite a few people on here who have their opinions about your ramblings as well...but most people have enough common decency to keep their opinions to themselves. (I am happy to share)
...I can't wait for the WIR...LOL.
Something to think about.

Harlin Wall - WALL TO WALL REPTILES!

LOL - ok prove it to me and I'll gladly admit I am wrong.

As for dougal - he is the one that went off on everyone else - in this thread and others. People were nice enough to inform me when I became annoying - I am just passing along the favor.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Tosha, I was going to stay out of this one, but I hear what you are saying. I have always found your post and replies informative and professional. Some people just hate it when you confuse them with facts. Please keep doing what you do and don't let any of these guys push you around.

Jeff

Harlin,

You speak words of wisdom my friend!
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Kyle
www.royalvariations.com

"be safe, be happy and dont let anyone make you afraid" David Coverdale

I always LOVE your posts Kyle! Great photos too.
You are cool by me...whether we agree or not...you have a good head on your shoulders.

Anyway,
I have 6 recent UPS receipts sitting in fornt of me right now Tosha...printed up by a few different UPS agents....guess they are all wrong too?

Just admit it when you learn something new...theres no harm in that. I bet you didn't know UPS even had a Live Animal Shippers Account program until today...
Forums are great for sharing information.
I corrected the information that you shared. You did your best.
Remember you called 7 times, right. What more can be done? Maybe you spoke to the wrong person?
It is a shame that you cannot ship via UPS from your area...but we can from here....and many other places...without breaking ANY policies.
The receipts are all labeled....

One says "two baby pythons"
They were Womas...but, I will let the UPS Agent print what they wish...it's their policy.

One says "Baby Chameleons"....they were Veiled Chameleons.

Another says "Calico Tree Boa-- Female"....it was an Amazon Tree Boa....yes it was a Calico.

The next one says, "Baby Boas"...They were Corn Island Boas.

This one is labeled "Baby Pythons"...they were baby Ball Pythons....interesting ones!

Here is the last one...it says "BOAS" They were a Pair of Amazon Tree Boas, a Solid Orange Male and a great looking Flame Red and Orange Female.

These are dated April 9th - April 25th.

Just chalk it up to learning something new...

Take care,
Harlin Wall - WALL TO WALL REPTILES!

Harlan, I always find you replies very informative, well spoken and professional as well. I am just surprised and maybe a little disapointed that you have decided to lower yourself to this "tit 4 tat". I don't this thread needed your ramblings any more then it needs mine. But thats just my humble opinion.

Jeff

P.S. Don't forget the kids are watching.

Point well taken.

Thank you Jeff.

Harlin Wall - WALL TO WALL REPTILES!

LOL - well Harlan all I can say - is that since 99% of the company seems to think that snakes are prohibited and they have the right to stop and destroy your package - I sure do hope you have a certificate from UPS stating that you are allowed to ship them - like you get from Fed Ex - not just the word of some part time kid behind the counter at the UPS store.

Good luck to you.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

He is so right TOSHA my package was labled in plain view snakes , and I also told them the customer service rep and their suoervisor that they were snakes , they did not make any comments about it being illegal they told me about the big storm and tornadoes in austin texas area where the snakes dealer mailed them from and that was it, they said it is legal to ship snakes in other live animals long as you go through the proper procedures to do so and this is why I am getting a refund , I dont know how we even got to this point , my balls are now all in there vision tubs and they have been rehydrated and three of them even fed on rat pups the other two are doing fine two they have all just shed for the first time except for the two he would not feed they are still shedding which is proably the reason why they have not shed , this is all bout the snakes so lets have love peace and happiness , there already is a horrible war going on in IRAQ nots have one here this is the place I come to escape from all the madness.

Dude,

Your drawing lines between, or attempting to equate, your little addle-minded snake escapade to the war in Iraq would be laughable if it wasnt so disturbing.

One can only conclude from your seemingly detached understanding of how things work in the real world, coupled with your grandios sense of proportion when it comes to yourself and your five little snakes, that you lack the cognitive capacity to know better.

Good luck with your snakes.

First of all I did pay for the shipping $45 bucks to be exact , and you are wrong about their shipping policy I asked several inporters and retailers they will ship snakes , their is a process you have to go through end of discussion !

and they don't mind you shipping live as long as it is marked and there is a contact number in case of problems....
UPS is the worst shipper out there...I don't ship or buy anything that goes through UPS......
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CD
Corns(Adults)
1.0 Snow ZigZag
1.0 Bloodred het Pewter
0.1 Banded Motley het Amel
0.1 Blizzard het Anery A
Corns(Sub-adult)
1.0 Anerythristic

I wonder if the shipping policies vary by office or region. Even if the corporation has one policy, its not impossible to believe some manager at one office may tweak the policy to fit his/her own preference.

I bet the managers & employees (drivers, counter help, etc) in a DHL / UPS location in Florida or California are ALOT more aware of things like live animals, reptiles, fruit..etc. Leaving through their location than someone in Vermont?

Like I wrote a little bit above, I got a package from a guy in South Carolina and he wrote LIVE SNAKES in big letters on the box and I received the package on time.

A little time later I wanted to verify things with DHL, cause I had been using Brown, but when I called the DHL HUB closest to my house the lady was freaked out and basically said
"SNAKES...NO SNAKES!!!"

Since then I wirte Fragile/CRYSTAL on the box and let it go at that. I drill the air hole into the corners at an angle so you cant tell or I drill them on the sides then I place the sheet of white paper with the address over the holes so it still allows air in, but you cant see the holes...

I dont ship very often. Its a pain in the butt(for me anyhow) already. Never mind having to go to the airport or to get approved to ship 2 snakes a year.

Also Tosha, sadly to say, it makes a whole big difference if the snake is worth $100 or 5k - no??

I really have had good luck receiving snakes from the carriers mentioned. People have sent them for 10am delivery and I have been able to track them almost real time right to the door.

You really have to be proactive as well. I have them delivered to my wife's business so I know someone is there to receive the package and they wont be brought back if I am not home or if someone doesnt hear the door bell. Also, If something looks fishy during shipping, like the package sits at a hub for an extended period of time, I will call and make sure the package didnt get missplaced or something. You really have to stay on things to ensure you get the service you requested from UPS/ DHL.

I really think there is confusion with the carriers over certain things that they are allowed to ship. I did call several hubs and spoke with several people and they were uncertain. You also get the knee-jerk reaction over snakes from some.

I do agree with you that the hobby doesnt need anymore bad press.

Thats for sure.

Well I had an account thru DHL for about 3 years and the last 2 packages shipped were lost in transit. One was a orange ghost female bound for Sacramento and a YB male going to Pittsburg. So Im in the process right now of having one of my empty packages sent to the testing center in Tennessee (FedEX) so I can be legally allowed to ship snakes thru Fed Ex. I dont mind shipping Delta if the customer wants it that way its just a 45 minute drive or so one way to the airport and its also an inconvinence to the buyer to drive to pick up the animal but is by far the best way to go. Its really not that hard to get the ball rolling on that process just sign up for an account on FedEx.com then call the 800 number they give you and then ship out your package to make sure its escape proff for ball pythons. Now I dont know how its going to be tested but they ship it on their own dime and send you back you box, snake bag etc. Hope this helps anyone
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Damian Macioce
www.strongholdreptiles.com

You are very correct sometimes its best not to any reply to of these threads people get very defensive and agressive and it becomes I bet I know it all and can prove you wrong have you heard of road rage, now we hage online thread rage man the world is changing.

I have to add on that you have to be approved to ship snakes via Fed Ex. A year or so ago I bought some corns and the seller was not approved. The snakes made it to my local office. They called me said I needed to pick them up. When I got there, they told me it was "illegal" to ship snakes via Fed Ex, the snakes would be returned to the shipper or destroyed. I had a bit of a fit about the destroyed part, threatened to report them for animal abuse. Even though the package was across the counter from me, they would not let me have it.

A couple calls to a very nice lady and she let me have the snakes with my promise to never ship snakes without approval.

The people in the offices do not know the rules or policies. A few months ago I got called again. Took my approval in with me. Lady tells me they know what is in the box and they don't ship snakes. I said, yeah, it's written right there on the side of the box what is in it. Tell her I am not trying to hide anything. Tells me again they don't ship snakes, I show her my contract with Fed Ex that says they will. Finally got things ironed out, but I expect more hassle when they get new people in the office.
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2.1 Albino BP
0.4 100% Het Albino
2.1 100% het Caramel Albino BP
1.0 100% Het Clown
1.0 50% het clown
2.12 Normal BP
0.0.2 Western Hognose
alot of cornsnakes
0.1.0 Dumeril Boa
3.6 Bearded Dragons
1.0.2 Sulcatta tortoise
3.3 Russian Tortoise
1.0 Cockatiel
0.1 Rottweiler
0.2 Boston Terriers
0.1 White Boxer
0.1 Paint Mare
bunch of geckos
0.1 Cat
0.1 Teenage daughter
1.0 Husband who puts up with all my critters.

Whoa there Tosha,

I am not saying that you are wrong...but you are also not entirely correct either....
Because, in some areas it is up to the specific UPS Service Center's discretion. They may accept or refuse your shipment.
I only know this as I hold a Live Animal Shippers Account with UPS.
In my area we ARE allowed to ship non-venomous snakes...as well as other harmless reptiles and amphibians.
(I think there is a size restriction...seems like it was nothing over 60 lbs.
Delta will ship up to 72 lbs...no extra charge...much better deal!)
But we ship non-venomous snakes at least once a week via UPS.
In fact the species must be noted on the UPS shipping label and receipt as to what the exact contents of your Lave Animal Parcel.
My UPS agents inspect each shipment and note the contents on the labels and receipt.
Recently I sold a Calico Amazon Tree Boa and several Ball Pythons...as well as a large lot of baby Veiled Chameleons.
In each shipment the UPS agents inspected and printed the species being shipped on the UPS shipping label.
However, at certain locations the counter personel are allowed to refuse your "outgoing" shipments. It all depends on the Service Center that you go to.
As long as you have a Live Animal Shipper's Account and the shipment has been inspected, and it has ACCEPTED by a UPS service agent...your package is good to go. It cannot be held up at any other UPS station...unless there is a violation.
(Incoming shipments are not refused or held up...unless there is a violation)
Violations might include:
Incorrect labeling as to the contents.
Improper packaging.
Endangered, Threated, Protected or Restricted species.
And I am sure the list could go on...but you get the idea.
UPS, FEDEX, and DHL will all ship reptiles.
I am not certain of the policies of the other companies because we only utilize Delta Dash and UPS. But I am certain of the UPS policies...we have been shipping with them for more than 15 years. And receiving shipments from UPS for more than 20 yrs.
It is always wise to be Honest about the contents you are planning to ship. Often a good customer service representative might even help you by offering suggestions or solutions that can save you money on your shipping and expedite your shipment's arrival time. Just be honest about your shipment.
Anyone who ships live animals should NEVER tell a fib about the contents of the parcel. It will only cause you problems in the long run. As they say "Honesty is the Best Policy".
One other thing to consider...
UPS, FEDEX, and DHL do NOT offer any guarantees on ANY perishable items. They will also not allow you to purchase ANY insurance for perishable items.
Any decent seller should disclose this information to the buyer prior to accepting ANY payment for live animals.
Allow your buyer to make an informed decision.
Delta Dash will offer $750.00 max cap. for insurance of live shipments.
I often see sellers TERMS state things like:

"Live arrival Guarantee!"
and then...
"We will not be responsible for mistakes or delays caused by fault of the carrier. These claims should be filed with the carrier."

And while I agree that the seller is not responsible for the fault of a shipping company (the carrier)...they should also not leave an open loophole as an excuse for the easy way out.
Be a responsible seller.
Just explain to the customer the details of the the guarantees and insurance that Delta offers...and the LACK of guarantees or insurance when using other shipping services. Let the customer make an informed decision... AND get them to send you an email stating that they understand the ramifications of choosing anything other than Delta Dash or another insurable carrier.
It might not be fun to explain all of this to a customer prior to making the sale...but it sure beats trying to explain the facts after something might go wrong.
In the end, you must decide how you will handle your guarantees....even if it is the carrier's fault.
Just my 2 cents.
Take care.
Harlin Wall - WALL TO WALL REPTILES!

OK - I've heard all these scenarios before - which is why when I researched shippers - I specifically asked if there were any special accounts or specific regions, grandfather clauses, bulk shipper exemptions, etc. etc. where snakes would be accepted - I was told emphatically NO time after time - that any agent that represented that UPS would accept snakes for shipment was misrepresenting their service policy. And yes - it can get flagged anywhere along the route - this doesn't happen often but it does happen.

I'm not passing judgment on anyone that ships UPS - but I did extensively research this after past discussions on various forums and am just passing on what was told to me after calling several times and working my way up the chain of command each time.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Sorry to call you wrong Tosha...it was not meant to hurt your feelings. Remember that "incorrect" and "liar" are not the same thing. I am not calling you a liar.
But you ARE partially wrong. I am merely trying to clear things up a bit. (You many have gotten biased information.)
As stated by another person here, who uses FEDEX, you must have a contract...or in the case of UPS as I stated, you MUST hold a Live Animal Shippers Account. It is reviewed on a case by case senario.
And left to the UPS agent's discretion.
I am sure that you may have researched this. And, I am certain that you DID get the answers you have posted here...but this was information given by someone who is not familiar with the LIVE ANIMAL SHIPPERS account.
Otherwise...you are correct.
The FACT is:
Non Venomous snakes CAN be shipped via UPS as long as it has been "accepted" by the Service Center and the shipper holds an "approved" LIVE ANIMAL SHIPPERS ACCOUNT.
End of story.
Call the Corporate Office. Ask for a service rep. who specializes in Licensed Businesses who wish to ship live animals.
If you are told that harmless, size restricted snakes cannot be
shipped under any circumstances...then that is the case for YOUR area.
I get a completely different answer out here...And I researched it as throughly as could be...it is my sole source of income.
A Full Time, State Licensed Business for me. So I made sure I knew how to do it legally and in accordance with UPS policies.

And I asked if the shipment can be held up (if it was accepted in compliance with UPS policies for LIVE ANIMAL SHIPPERS)...
The answer...was "NO".
"Accepted shipments must be allowed to continue on their route, so long as there are no violations of law."

Keep in mind that new personel might not know all the policies of the companies they work for....Just as Kim stated about her dealings with FEDEX.
As well it looks like Dougle DID get his 5 snakes...and they are alive.
Harlin Wall - WALL TO WALL REPTILES!

Harlin - that is exactly what I did and those where the answers I received - not once not twice but seven different times - and we will leave it at that.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

Nuff said. I will agree with that Tosha.

As for Dougle's experience with UPS...

I have had very good luck with receiving shipment from both UPS and FEDEX. DHL (which used to be Airborne Express)has been rather sketchy for me. I get my crickets (15,000 every week) via DHL...and it seems like I have had to voice more complaints about them than any other service.

Sorry DHL...but it's the truth.

I am sorry that Dougle had a bad experience with UPS.
Every carrier company is made up of Humans who are capable of mistakes. I am sure that everyone will form their opinions of which company does the best shipping based on the experiences they have.

I must say...UPS does usually get the job done right. But mistakes can happen. If you are looking for the best service, I would suggest Delta Dash. (They are also capable of mistakes)
I had a friend who has worked for both FEDEX and UPS...on his recommendation, I chose to look into UPS for my business.
They have served me well and helped me to make a multitude of my customers very happy.

Use the company that you feel most comfortable with.

I will continue to utilize both UPS and Delta Dash.
And I will leave the informed choice to the customer.
Regardless of the shipping carrier....delays and mistakes are stressful and always tough to deal with.
Dougle, Glad your snakes made it.
Take care,
Harlin Wall - WALL TO WALL REPTILES!

This happened due to nature bad storms going through the area of San Antonio Texas which was true this knocked the power out in thier hub facility and delayed aircraft so this is what happened UPS could have did a much better job of communicating with me the customer and I would have had alot less stress , UPS had know control of the weather , so I have decided to let them keep the whole fee.

This is why we had treaties go Navy .

Chain of command sounds like I am back in the Navy , tosha its ok to be wrong, if its makes you feel better I will say you win but what is the prize the truth speaks for itself the points have been made let go its ok.

Dude, you sound like a ten year old. You always feel the need to get in the last word. And let me tell you I don't know if I believe half of what say (when its coherent). First you didn't tell UPS your package contained snakes, now you say that you told them it was snakes and that's why they are giving you the refund. And now your saying your letting them keep the refund, which unless you were listed as the shipper would not be entitled to anyway. You were so upset with UPS and all their reps were so rude that you were writing letters to the president, now you feel they did the best they could and beyond their control. Also you use to be in the legal profession, now you work for United States Postal Service. Was that before or after your time in the navy. How do you keep track of it all. i wonder if you even know what truth is. You have been in the middle of all sorts of controversy (pissing contest) for the past couple of weeks. Maybe you enjoy trying to get people all stirred up, I don't know. But I think Tosha should change the title from "The thread from hell" to "The thread from dougle". You keep saying its not about the keepers, but about the snakes like your the only person that cares about their animals, talk about sanctimonious. Chill-out and get a life dude. Karma's a [bleep] and will bite you in the ass.

Jeff

Man such love on this thread again read slowly I am who I am have know reason to lie to you are anyone else and who ar you to question my service to this country maybe if you did the same thing you woudnt have such a negative attitude, you are entitled to say what you want thats why guys like me went in to the miitary so that guys like you can sit back and speak retoric of know substance. Everyone is entitled to their on oppinion, ideas, and views , and another thing you should really watch ur language their are young kids who read these threads , where is a bar of soap when you need one, everyone thank you for your response and always keep a open mind .I love this hobby.

I think you are the one that should read more carefully. I never questioned your service to this country, I merely ask if your legal career and Postal job was before or after your time in the service. And don't try and turn this into an issue of patriotism or loyalty to ones country. Every time one of my children gets in trouble they always try and turn it around and blame someone else for their issues. And as far as my language, I didn not use any words that can not be heard on radio and TV or found in the dictionary. Pherhaps you should try picking one up and thumbing through it. And as far as this hobby goes I am glad that you love it. Thats is not my issue with your replies. Its the way you get aggressive and take things personaly while trying to make it seem as though the other people are the ones with the problem. Thats all.

Jeff

No response moveon get over it I liked all the response I must say most where positive and openminded you should learn from others. End of story this is old news now.

There was a tracking number , and I tracked it online and thats how I found out that my balls would again be delayed another 48 hours , they where in kentucky than, I called UPS BY phone and asked why this was all happening and the person on the phone was very rude and uncaring and the person supervisor was even worse even laughing at on point I will complain to the corpate office monday, thanks for your concern, I have my fingers crossed.

I have only had one problem using a ground shipper and that was similar to yours. The package never left the terminal where I dropped it off until the next day so the package was a day late. Whenever using any ground shipper I try to ship on Mon, Tues, or Wed. and NEVER on Fridays, especially with UPS since they don't normally deliver on Saturday.
To be honest, I have had far more problems with Delta. I had a shipment that was lost for 4 days until they finally found it, but all the snakes were fine. I have also had 3 shipments delayed an by a day. Once due to weather, and twice because they just didn't make the chage of planes through Atlanta.
Even with the problems I have never lost an animal.

Ups has been fine so far (figers crossed), DHL too has been good.

Nothing for nothing, if you paid for a - by 10am delivery, shouldnt you be entitled to a refund of some sort if it takes 4 days to get your package?

They told they would give me a refund but I dont care about the UPS fee I care about the balls I was supposed to get and they were very rude and uncaring I will be writing a letter and sending it to there headquarters .

Unfortunately your vendor chose to ship your snakes via a company whos policy explicitly states that they will not / do not ship snakes - which is likely part of the reason that they aren't being overly sympathetic to your cause. If you break their rules they aren't responsible for the losses. Be thankful that they don't confiscate the package entirely.
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Tosha
JET Pythons

I did not tell them it was snakes , and I again had know input o how the dealer ships their balls I am the customer.

I understand your upset,But as a cutomer you do have a voice on how your snakes are shipped.its called communication,its a must with EVERY transaction.Tosha is right be happy that your shipment isnt confiscated.Good Luch and I hope you get your package on Monday.
Kevin

www.KMSReptiles.com

Its a business and they offered you a refund. YOU were breaking the rules, even if you didnt ship them you still were breaking UPS's rules.

Please do the rest of us a favor..

Get your snakes on Monday, then get your refund and move on.

If you dont like the way UPS works, dont use them to ship snakes illegally anymore.

Whining about isnt going to help. Its just going to make UPS crack down on something they are nice enough to turn a blind eye on now.

How does everyone know UPS DOESNT want to ship live? It may just be a insurance situation? Or maybe its where there home offices are located and the local zoning?

UPS and DHL do fine work, considering the volume they handle.

Many - many people on here use them to ship.. I love how all the "holier than thou's come out of the wood work when things like this happen. Everyones and angel...I know..

NOT!

Again I am not the dealer I am the customer , the dealer I bought the 0.5 normals from told me he would ship by DHL , OR UPS I had know control of how he ships his animals so by law I am not liable nor did I break any laws this I know because I used to be innthe legal profession , please read the entire thread in detail. And again I never told them they were snakes again read the thread there was know need to think for your response.

I hope your snakes are ok. I am sure they will be.

If I were you, I wouldnt even take the refund from UPS. Id write letters and hold my breath until they capitulate to your demands.

Good luck. I think you have them right where you want them.

Thank you somebody with good common sense.

snakes illegally and that would solve a lot of your problem. Do not buy from people that ship illegally or against a companies policies, demand a legal way of shipping with box marked appropriately (Delta, Fed EX........) or do not buy the snakes from them it's as simple as that.
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Vince Pramuk