Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

https://www.crepnw.com/
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You

Black rattlesnake

Elmo53 Apr 29, 2007 01:39 PM

I was walking in the woods at Jumping Off Place way above Lake Jocassee this morning and almost stepped on a medium size black snake - my dog walked right past it twice.
It was on the path, so I tried to nudge it with a long stick and it rattled at me. It did not coil, showed no interest in moving or striking the stick.
My dog passed within inches of it and it watched her but made no aggessive move.

It was stretched out so I'd guess it was about 18" or so, only as wide as a narrow finger, it's head looked like the shape of a garter snake - not broad or particularly tapered. The underside of the jaw was light colored.

I could not find a picture similar to this on any of the sites I tried, and would like to know what it was.

Thanks

Replies (9)

NWFLHerper Apr 29, 2007 02:23 PM

Well, I googled Lake Jocassee and I'll assume you're in South Carolina. It sounds like you found a Black Rat Snake, but there could be a couple of other possibilities. Below is a link to help you try and Identify your snake.
Snakes of South Carolina

Elmo53 Apr 29, 2007 03:57 PM

It looks a lot like the rat snake, but did not seem to have the white markings and did have a rattle.

Yes, I was in the top western corner of SC

NWFLHerper Apr 29, 2007 04:04 PM

Oh, I didn't realize it actually had a rattle. Many non-venomous will rattle thier tails when disturbed. In that case it would be a dark phase Timber Rattlesnake.

Elmo53 Apr 29, 2007 05:14 PM

Ok. I wondered if it was a stage of some more identifyable snake. I really thought it was a rat snake or, as we had in FL, a common black snake, but it clearly had rattles....
Got my attention! I was surprised that it wouldn't move off when I tried to prod it, but it didn't try to strike either.
I'm glad my dog didn't notice it...the road to the place where we were takes 40 min and there is no cell service!
Thanks for your help!

chrish Apr 29, 2007 10:25 PM

It was on the path, so I tried to nudge it with a long stick and it rattled at me.

Are you basing the "rattle" presence based on the sound? If so, many harmless snakes rattle their tails and in dry leaves or really any substrate, it will produce a rattling sound. So the shaking of the tail and the rattleing sound does not indicate a rattlesnake.

It was stretched out so I'd guess it was about 18" or so, only as wide as a narrow finger, it's head looked like the shape of a garter snake - not broad or particularly tapered. The underside of the jaw was light colored.

The only rattlesnake in the eastern US that ever becomes black are Timber Rattlesnakes, but they only come in the black phase in the Northeastern US. Timber Rattlesnakes in SC are largely yellow/gray with black chevrons or bands.

This behavior of freezing and rattling the tail is not typical of rattlesnakes in general. It is VERY typical of Black Ratsnakes.

Furthermore, an 18 inch Timber Rattlesnake would be as wide as your wrist. In fact, a newborn Timber Rattlesnake is larger in diameter than your thumb.

Some blacks snakes in your area that rattle their tails include...
Black Ratsnakes
Black Racer
some adults of certain Watersnakes
Eastern Kingsnakes, but they have white crossbars

None of these species is venomous.
-----
Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

Greg Longhurst Apr 30, 2007 04:39 AM

I have to agree with Mr. Harrison on this one. Too slender to be a Crotalus. The original poster needs to ask himself if he saw a rattle on the end of the snake's tail, or heard the tail make noise while he saw the tail vibrating.

~~Greg~~

Elmo53 Apr 30, 2007 06:29 AM

Interesting. And it makes sense but, if it was just making a rattling sound, it really sounded like a rattle, not rattling leaves. I listened a couple of times. Maybe they are really good at the motion that creats a rattle sound...I tried to get it to move enough to see the tail, but it wasn't going to go anywhere.
My first impression was that it looked like the black racers we had in FL only smaller. Since it had no pattern, a "normal" head and small size, I thought it was harmless. It also let my dog pass within inches without any agressive move.
I should have gotten my camera and gone back, but since we were alone up there and there is no cell service, I decided to just leave.
If I evey come across another one I'll get a picture. It won't be up there since the road in only open for a short period, but I'm out in the SC woods quite a bit.
I really appreciate the feedback on this!

MikeinOKC Apr 30, 2007 07:14 AM

I would say that the evolutionary adaption common to black rat snakes of mimicking a rattle in dry vegetation worked very well in this case.

Elmo53 Apr 30, 2007 08:03 AM

It did. What a neat adaptation. I will continue to trust my response to a rattle over my very limited powers of identification.
I've never been afraid of non-venemous snakes, but had a very healthy respect for the others. When in doubt, go the other way.
I had a too close encounter with a copperhead last year - similar circumstancesbut that time I recognized it right away, moved my backpack away from it and left. It didn't seem to mind my being on it's rock, but...when in doubt.
Thanks for your input.

Site Tools