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Scooped up this awesome adult female this morning from an urbanized area in coastal Los Angeles county.

I was really surprised to find her considering the extremely dry weather we're having here. I'm really stoked to have her!!

byron.d

nice score. Man I wish I was out in L.A.

Done any roadcruising in the deserts yet? Or how about up in the high elevations for mountain kings?
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I still don't need no spell chack.

Thanks Rainer. I havent made out to the desert yet, but I'm really looking for that when it warms up just a bit more.
No mountain trips for me this year, but there have been a pretty good number of Zonata's found by others.

byron.d

That's a great looking King. Neat how they're variable also from area to area.
Bluerosy, I've hit the deserts a few times this year, and seen "the usual suspects" (Gophers, Glossies and Mojave Greens) even on some cooler nights.
I've found 1 King this year, and that was in a trash pile @ the base of the foothills here in Chatsworth near where I live.

reako45

nm

Seeing that makes me really homesick! I'm originally from Redondo Beach, and due to my wife being in the military I now live in Virginia Beach, Va.. To far from home for my taste. I sure do miss those Cal kings, Zonata and Rosys. The Coleonyx were cool too. What area was the Cal from, without being too specific? LOL! Congratulations!
-Phil

I when to Redondo High.
I feel for 'ya man. you really are a long way from home. You've got some nice BIG kings out there though..

Without giving it up....... This gal was found in the Long Beach area.

byron.d

I graduated from Mira Costa H.S. in Manhattan Beach. I had a girlfriend that lived in the Naples area of L.B. Yeah, the Eastern Kings here are HUGE! They could eat a Cal king for a snack. LOL! I have a male that is atleast 5'+ and still growing!
cant wait to get back home. Here's a pic of a much smaller Va. Bch. Eastern.
-Phil

Nice. I think that is probably a true "grease king".

but that's what I was thinking...

Thanks Aaron. I was so stoked when I flipped this girl. It sucks to see a city just eating up what little habitat it has left.

byron.d

I'm sure you will check with people that have seen more of them than I have but I think it is a grease king. I am glad you got her.

It has dirty banding but I don't think it is a grease or mud king.

This is a grease king:

http://www.californiaherps.com/snakes/images/lgcaliforniaelbmelbhubbs05.jpg
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3.6 L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
1.1 L. getula nigrita (MBK)
1.0 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis fitchi (Valley Garter)
1.0 Boa constrictor constrictor (suriname, fostering/rescue)
3.3 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

The first Grease phase kings - from Long Beach, were just diry banded Cal's. There are hyper melanistic Cal's found throughout L A county. These are very, very dark and I think somewhere in there the two sort of became one.... I could be very wrong here.

I heard this first hand from an oldtimer who was collecting kings in Long Beach and Hermosa beach in the 70's. He said what they called Grease kings were just dirty banded Cal's from LB, and the hypermelanistic Cal's they called black Cal kings.

byron.d

See my post below. I think you are on to something. I have long thought that this is not just a simple recessive at work. It seems to "build on itself" the way a codominant would. I would bet if you bred this king to the normal you found a couple weeks ago you would get normals and some dirty, "webbed". Breed one of those "webbed" back to this one and I bet you'd get "webbed" and full-on "grease kings". Again breed one of those "grease kings" back to the original "webbed" you're posting here and I bet you'd get 100% grease kings.

You could be right, it may not be a grease king. There are two things that make me think it could be though. 1) It has exstensive black "webbing", or "netting" in the yellow. 2) The amount of "grease" could be variable because I have seen wild and captive born Mendotas that have full on blackbelly pattern yet still have bright yellow.

There is stuff going in with wild Mendotas that has never been posted which makes me believe there is more affecting them than just a single simple recessive gene. What we think of as a hypermelanistic Mendota has a full black belly, dark eyestripes, an abberrant striped/banded pattern, one or two small yellow stripes under the tail and a general suffusion of melanin. Yet there have been found Mendotas that lack one or more of the typical traits yet still have full black bellies.

Since the Los Angeles hypermelanistic kings typically only have two traits (webbing and suffusion of melanin) I think it is possible that this snake is a grease king due to the amount of webbing and that it is for some reason lacking distinct melanin suffusion.

All that said, I am not saying for sure it's a grease king just that with the wierd stuff I've seen from Mendota makes me wonder.

Here is a dirty king from east Contra Costa County.
I think this is a thinner band snake so it isn't quite as obvious, but it has the same dirty banded look to the cream.

I don't think "grease king" and dirty bands are related. Dirty bands happen at a lot of locales that do not have hypermelanistic individuals.

There may have been some old timers who would call a dirty banded snake a "grease king" but that doesn't mean they were correct in doing so.

Maybe I'm wrong about what a grease king is, I had never heard of them just a few years ago, but I do know it always amazed me how clean the bands on pet store kings were compared to the kings I was finding, so I wonder if the selective breeding for cleaner bands in the pet trade has biased some into thinking certain wild types are something they aren't.

That being said, there can of course be different causes of the dirty banding - and maybe the "grease kings" are a super form of the dirty banding that happens down there.
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3.6 L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
1.1 L. getula nigrita (MBK)
1.0 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis fitchi (Valley Garter)
1.0 Boa constrictor constrictor (suriname, fostering/rescue)
3.3 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

considering that you only became familiar with the term grease king a few years ago, how are you certain that they're not the same or simply mis-represented..?

the hypermelanistics that are also called grease kings in LB sure look like what someone would call a 'black cal king'...

do you remember the 'ruby eyed lavender' cal king of 10 years ago??
that was a very dark lavender cal with very dark (ruby) eyes.. now I see very light lavenders being called ruby eyed lavenders..

i'm not saying you're wrong, only that over time things and change and sometime become convoluted....

i personally, side with the oldtimers..... being that they're descriptions were often simple and accurate. they - at least some of them, weren't just creating a name for marketing purposes..

byron.d

It would be interesting to see pictures from the old timers with their descriptions.
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3.6 L. getula californiae (Cal. King)
1.1 L. getula nigrita (MBK)
1.0 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
1.0 Thamnophis sirtalis fitchi (Valley Garter)
1.0 Boa constrictor constrictor (suriname, fostering/rescue)
3.3 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

they didnt have cameras back then!!

dont know if i can get photos, but i'll check.

ALos know as the JR and JD strain.
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I still don't need no spell chack.

I see what you're talking about but I think byrons king has alot more "webbing" than the one you posted. I have also seen Carlsbads that have very distinct webbing but have never heard of a grease king coming from Carlsbad. So I agree webbing does not neccesarily mean grease king.

Your last sentence is key - "That being said, there can of course be different causes of the dirty banding - and maybe the 'grease kings' are a super form of the dirty banding that happens down there." I am only throwing that out as a theory based on some atypical blackbellies I have seen from Mendota.

I think another possibility is that it is a simple recessive but that on some kings that would be really bright yellow had they not had the blackbelly or grease gene, the grease affect is subdued.