Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey guys

Any ideas as to why or how to help this guy . He was a road rescue... looks great ... about 2 feet long ... feeds immediately ... feeding on rat pups ... 2x and both times he has regurged. He is in my snake room with all my other ratsnakes and Pituophis ... temps are about 82- 84 day and 70s at night ..

Parasites a maybe but why the regurge ? .. he has an excellent feeding response ..

Thanks !
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Safari Tom
See'em Touch'em Save'em
www.SafariTom.com

I would get it away from the rest of your collection until you figure it out...
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3.1 Corn (Anery Stripe-Ripple '06/Amber-Jack Straw '06/Snow-Casey Jones '06/Amel Motley-Cosmo '03)
0.1 Baird's Ratsnake (Sugaree '04)
1.0 White Oaks Grey Rat (Tennesse Jed '04)
0.1 IJ Carpet Python (Cassidy '04)
1.0 Western Hognose (Samson '05)
1.1 Shepherd mix (Dylan 8yrs, Porter 3yrs)

Try this link. It is to the point.
Vomiting vs Regurgitation

>>Hey guys
>>
>> Any ideas as to why or how to help this guy . He was a road rescue... looks great ... about 2 feet long ... feeds immediately ... feeding on rat pups ... 2x and both times he has regurged. He is in my snake room with all my other ratsnakes and Pituophis ... temps are about 82- 84 day and 70s at night ..
>>
>> Parasites a maybe but why the regurge ? .. he has an excellent feeding response ..
>>
>>Thanks !
>>-----
>>Safari Tom
>> See'em Touch'em Save'em
>>www.SafariTom.com

Condensed form.No food for 2 weeks.Your temps are fine.Keep in a quite area(no vibrations).Have plenty of water.After 2 weeks try a smaller food item.Wait a week.No regurge feed again.A dose of panacur wont hurt.
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If lead paint is so deadly why do they make it so delicious?

Sounds good , thanks for the info ...

He is separated from my collection ... If i bring in a wild caught , i quarrantine for about a week...

I fed a newborm pink last night ... took it immediatley .. now lets see what happens..

Thanks Everyone !
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Safari Tom
See'em Touch'em Save'em
www.SafariTom.com

It's not that good that you keep feeding it after it keeps regurgitating... You need to let the snake's digestive acids build back up.
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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.kingpinreptiles.com
^ Updated 4/17

I dont keep feeding it after it regurges ...

Its been about 4 days ... I feel that is long enough ... Ive given a newborn pink ... this snake is capable of eating a small - med rat ...
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Safari Tom
See'em Touch'em Save'em
www.SafariTom.com

>>I dont keep feeding it after it regurges ...
>>
>> Its been about 4 days ... I feel that is long enough ... Ive given a newborn pink ... this snake is capable of eating a small - med rat ...
>>-----
>>Safari Tom
>> See'em Touch'em Save'em
>>www.SafariTom.com

Jimmy,aka Draybar has a fact sheet you really need to read before you kill that snake.Ive dealt with pukers before and it's damn easy to kill one.If it holds the pinky down dont feed for at least 10 to 14 days.Your corns digestive track is all messed up.I dont care if it can eat an antelope any meal is bad right now and after 2 regurges your playing with fire.Go slow...M
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If lead paint is so deadly why do they make it so delicious?

Hey
Dont worry , I will take it real slow ... What do you mean by his digestive system is all messed up ? How so ?

Hopefully draybar will post that page your asking about ...

Ive never had recurring regurge problems... I just want to get this guy fixed up ..

Thanks for your help!
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Safari Tom
See'em Touch'em Save'em
www.SafariTom.com

What Mike means is, the good gut bacteria that help digestion are severely depleted in your snake's system right now. Waiting 4 days between puking and feeding is not nearly long enough. Also, because of the acidic nature of the vomitus, there is a good chance the digestive tract is very irritated now as well, not to mention dehydration due to the regurges.

Here's what I know works based on more experience than I care to admit. If the snake holds down the pinky, do not feed it again until it has a defecation (probably 4-7 days at least). Since it was such a small meal, keep a close eye out for the defecation. Once it does "go", feed it another pinky and then wait to make sure it defecates again. If it holds down the second meal, repeat one more time with the pinky and then move on to something a little bigger, like a hopper, again, after the defecation. If it continues to hold down the food after 4-5 feedings, then you can move up to what you would consider a normal sized meal, but don't overdo it - keep it only about as big around as the snake at it's thickest area. It will also be safest to always wait for a good defecation between meals.

If things go bad and the snake pukes up the pinky in the next couple of days, then you absolutely must wait at least 2 full weeks (3 is even better) before feeding it another pinky. It takes about 2 weeks for the gut bacteria to re-establish. In the mean time, make sure it is good and hydrated, warm and undisturbed.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Billy

>>Hey
>> Dont worry , I will take it real slow ... What do you mean by his digestive system is all messed up ? How so ?
>>
>> Hopefully draybar will post that page your asking about ...
>>
>> Ive never had recurring regurge problems... I just want to get this guy fixed up ..
>>
>>Thanks for your help!
>>-----
>>Safari Tom
>> See'em Touch'em Save'em
>>www.SafariTom.com

Thanks Billy

So far , no regurge .. I will take it really slow .. just as you stated ... Makes great sense to me ...

Ill keep you posted
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Safari Tom
See'em Touch'em Save'em
www.SafariTom.com

Cool Tom. Yeah, patience is key right now. I have literally had some pukers on death's doorstep come back using that regimen.

Billy

Folks, I agree with waiting before feeding the snake again, but I keep seeing this junk about "good bacteria" replenishing as the reason. This is just nonsense. Almost all of the natural bacteria that help with digestion are found in the intestines, and not in the stomach. The pH of the stomach is way to low for most bacteria to survive. Even if there were this population of bacteria there, they would not be growing because there would be no source of food energy for them to grow on. This theory also overlooks the fact that hatchling snakes have no problems feeding before these bacteria ever get established in their guts. This is nothing but an old wives tale that keeps getting passed along on this forum.

If you think I am wrong, then please site the journal article where your facts came from. I did a web search, and none of the DVM’s listed this as a reason for a snake’s vomiting

>>Folks, I agree with waiting before feeding the snake again, but I keep seeing this junk about "good bacteria" replenishing as the reason. This is just nonsense. Almost all of the natural bacteria that help with digestion are found in the intestines, and not in the stomach. The pH of the stomach is way to low for most bacteria to survive. Even if there were this population of bacteria there, they would not be growing because there would be no source of food energy for them to grow on. This theory also overlooks the fact that hatchling snakes have no problems feeding before these bacteria ever get established in their guts. This is nothing but an old wives tale that keeps getting passed along on this forum.
>>
>>If you think I am wrong, then please site the journal article where your facts came from. I did a web search, and none of the DVM’s listed this as a reason for a snake’s vomiting

All Im sure of is the fact that if you keep feeding a regurging snake it dies.The gut bacteria thing I have no clue about.If it were me I would let the wildcaught go and buy a $25 cb corn that has had a few meals and can hold them down.

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If lead paint is so deadly why do they make it so delicious?

If you want the snake to have a chance at life, you have to find out what is making it sick. If it has vomited twice, it should be taken to a reptile vet.

I do have two rescue snakes that are doing great, but the rest were all CB. With American Rat Snakes, there is no shortage of animals. As the man said, you can by a well started Corn for $25. I would guess that the vet bill on this sick little snake will be $100. IMO, photos are the best things to take from the wild.

Murphy

I didnt catch this snake because i wanted a corn snake .. I have numerous corns.. lots of colors to choose from...

So , I dont need a cb corn feeding and all ..lol

I rescued this snake off the road ...
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Safari Tom
See'em Touch'em Save'em
www.SafariTom.com

Very good point , and i Agree with you 100% . I am a paramedic with a great education in anatomy and physiology. The bacteria thing is just he said she said .. passed on .. and on
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Safari Tom
See'em Touch'em Save'em
www.SafariTom.com

You might want to increase that time span to at least a month minimum. Just my opinion.

>> He is separated from my collection ... If i bring in a wild caught , i quarrantine for about a week...
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phflame
kingsnake.com host

Today around 2pm est , i found the pinky regurged ...

I will wait 2 weeks before my next attempt but will provide plenty of water.

I will say this again .. I am experienced keeper and breeder of many snakes.. Boa's , Burms , Corns , Pituophis and Kings .. I did not grab this snake jsut to grab em ... he was in an over populated area , in the street full of traffic ... He is a road rescue ..

He is obviously sick or something ... He is active and very food agressive and appears healthy , great weight and everything .. If in 2 weeks this happens again .. he will go to the vet ... Im not concerned about the money ... but the herp vets in my area are fairly clueless when it comes to reptile medicine and have even consulted me as to their treatment , knowing that I have the 2 book set Atlas of Reptile Veterinary Medicine. So I dont put much faith in reptile Vets in my area.

Anyway , He puked again ... time will tell.. thanks for all the responses..
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Safari Tom
See'em Touch'em Save'em
www.SafariTom.com