Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a 2-1/2 year old JCP that got bit on the lower jaw 8 months ago and had a very bad infection that was treated by a good rep vet. It got better and then 1-½ months later came back. I thought that was the end of her but she has made a full recovery except she hasn’t eaten in over 7 months! I tried taking a whole mouse (dead) and force-feeding her but she regurgitated it. She will strike at them but not old on. I’ve tried F/T, fresh killed, live, and even rats (unfortunately she’s a mouse eater). She doesn’t look thin but she did shed twice in one month!?! The inside of her mouth looks good so I don’t understand. I am looking at trying tube feeding her to get her some nutrition. The method I would like to try is found at: http://www.herpo.com/tubes/index.html Does this sound like a good Idea? How far do I insert the tube on a 50”+ Carpet and how many cc’s do I feed her.

P.S. After her two quick sheds (3 in 2 months) she looks a brilliant yellow and the black tipping of the yellow has faded. Her normal black markings are darker than ever. She looks better than ever as far a color. I have never herd of a JCP loosing some of the black tipping of the yellow. Weird hu! I will post a picture of her tomorrow.

-Thanks

the sheds are from when she was healing,that's nothing to worry about. As far as feeding, what temps do you keep her basking area at if you have one? As for feeding her, I feed mine in different containers so that they don't get a feeding response of opening cage means food.
While she may have recovered from her injuries, she may not have recovered emotionally (think about trauma victims). So you gotta help her build her confidence back up, I had to do this with my corn snake who became afraid of rats.
Since Jungle Carpets get large as adults you really want her to get to rats. Try giving her either a sub-adult mouse or rat fuzzy pre-killed in a feeding container, you don't want to do live yet. Don't put any substrate in the container, just snake and food. You may want to cover her with a blanket or something so that she feels safe and whatever and you may need to leave her there over night. If that doesn't work, try braining the feeder, that means you crack the skull to where the brains are exposed. Agian feeding container over night.
-----
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Rex- "normal" orange fire)
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Glutany- German Giant Mix)
0.1.0 Okeetee Corn (Okatee)
1.1.0 Spotted Python (Hotdog and Shoelace)

Thanks Black Wolf. My temps on the hot side are actually at the higher end of the suggested range to promote healing. Yes, I know how to set up the proper temperature gradient, but thanks for mentioning it because a lot of people don’t.

As far as feeding her rats…been down that road…. dead end…. CRASH! I made the mistake of not switching her early enough and have tried everything. I didn’t make the mistake with my other two. JCPs are notorious for not switching. It sucks because I have to feed her 5 mice at a time, that’s how she got bit. I was out of F/T and didn’t kill one of them all the way. Five hundred bucks and a sick snake later… F/T all the way from now on!

I have tried all the tricks, braining, fuzzies, small dark container…nothing yet! I am really interested in the procedure of tube feeding, maybe having something in the system will help snap her back. I have herd it’s a lot less stressful than force-feeding whole mice. I just want to know how much to feed, opinions on formula and tips on how far to insert the tube.

Thanks!

Oh and I have to ask, how do you like your spotteds? I been thinking of adding a pair to my collection?

1.1 Jungle Carpet Pythons
1.0 Irian Jaya Carpet Python
1.0 Hypomelanistic Corn snake
?.? Sumatran Blood Python
1.1 Ball Pythons

thought i'd ask about temps because alot of people don't know, you right. May wanna lower it back to normal incase temps are bother her. What's the worse that could happen?
Just thought of this at work, have you tried scenting with anoles? Works with some people's snakes. can also try feeding a hamster or gerbil, but scenting might just be better.
As far as force feeding, if you've been doing it to much is can actually damage the whole digestive track. So you may or may not wait some to heal before force feeding again if you've been doing it to much.
As for the tube feeding thing, you're going to have to find a way to pretty much liquefy a mouse:defrost then blend it with a little reptile vitamin only thing I can think of. I'd only do one then wait overnight to see what happens. If that comes back up too, then that means another trip to the vet's in order.

On a different note-
I love my spotted pythons. great temperaments (nippy when young like with JCP) ad a nice managable size. Only feeding problem I've ever had was getting my male to take F/T and that was solved by leaving him in the feeding box with it over night.
The first picture's my male, second is my female.

-----
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Rex- "normal" orange fire)
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Glutany- German Giant Mix)
0.1.0 Okeetee Corn (Okatee)
1.1.0 Spotted Python (Hotdog and Shoelace)

I just took a long lunch and went home and tried the tube for the first time. No regurgitation so far. This would be the first nutrition in over 6 months. I hope this stirs her into eating on her own. Next is a live fuzzy.

Nice little pythons! I have to find a good breeder and get me a pair!

2 shots of my sick JCP I took at lunch threw the glass. Not great but it shows she doesn’t look like she is wasting away.

I think all your going to do is stress the thing out more so than it already is. Tube feeding or force feeding is not nescessary and may hinder more than help. Keep the temp gradients you have, and re-adjust your husbandry. The problem lies with the keeper not the kept in a situation like this. Assuming from the picture your keeping it in that aquarium, it's not going to eat whether healthy or not

FIRST of all what do YOU know about my husbandry practices! I just tube feed her and she was sitting in a holding tank. I usually feed in a rubber-made but it’s kind of hard to take a picture threw opaque green plastic. If you have some constructive criticism great, but to say “you suck and just change” is not very nice.

I have had snakes for YEARS and I know you purists think that glass tanks are bad but YOU take the cake! Snakes don’t eat and can’t live in a glass tank!?! Do you assume it has a wire top with no way to hold in the humidity, or do you think that it might be in a cold room and glass is a rotten insulator? Well when I use glass (and sometimes I do.) I still maintain the proper thermal gradient. My snake room is regulated to 76 degrees so the cool end is never a problem. It has an insulated waterproof top with adjustable vent holes, and I check the humid once a day and temp twice a day with an IR temp gun. I use terrycloth towels, not news print (sorry purists) or wood shavings so at the first sign of a soiling I can pull the towel out clean the glass and put in a fresh towel. Glass is not a porous surface (some plastics absorb liquids) and is easy to sanitize. My carpets get plastic climbing branches so they can get closer to the basking lamp (w/rheostat) at the hot end or go into plastic hide boxes at either end. The hot side has an under-tank heater with a rheostat. Soon a thermostat from within each enclosure will regulate my collection, the room already has one.

I don’t know…maybe I should go a get a rack and some sweater boxes and some news paper and be more professional. I think all in all they are a pretty durable pet. Oops, did I say the “P” word? My bad!

This is the first infection I have had in my collection. In fact it’s the first major problem I’ve had. She must have liked my husbandry practices before she got bit because she ate like a hog.

Before I tube fed I consulted a good rep vet (he just got back in town yesterday) he thought 8 months was a long time, they can go a year but are pretty week by then. I was surprised how easy it was compared to force-feeding whole. I hope I won’t have to do it again.

This tirade was in no way meant to insult anyone with “sweater boxes with News print in them” or anyone who “tries” to sell snakes for a profit. All names were changed to protect the innocent, and because I couldn’t remember them anyway.

Happy herping all…

There's no problem with tube feeding if done correctly. I'm not talking about technique, although that's extremely important, I'm referring to materials. I've had great success using Zupreem's Monitor and Tegu Diet. Add water to smooth out the consistency and pump weekly in incresing amounts. Depending on size, I start with 15cc and increase by 15cc until I reach the volume of a normally sized feeding. Once I regain healthy body mass, I start introducing live prey and continue on to F/T.

Mitch

Seriously, you came on a public forum asking for opinions, and you got one. It just wasn't what you wanted to hear. Instead of making this about you, make it about your animal. If it hasn't eaten in however long, your going to have to make some changes. Simple concept, right? Instead of tube feeding and trying to put a band-aid on it, change ( or tweak ) your husbandry untill you find something that works and the animal resumes feeding. Obvoiusly, something about the animal has changed, so you are going to have to change accordingly. While thier are some pretty steadfast Reptile keeping equations, you have to keep in mind that they are equations and the variables change. Sorry dude, but I've never had to tube/force feed any of the rescues or animals in my personal collection; All it took was learning how to read an individual, and knowing how to apply that to my individual husbandry changes. I've had both Boas and Pythons dumped on my doorstep that have gone 8-10-12 months plus without feeding for their previous owner, but I'd usually have the feeding on their own within 3-4 weeks. Like I said in my prevoius post, the kept knows what it needs to survive, the Keeper usually doesn't and tries to mold the animal to suit his/hers needs and won't take that fact into consideration, so the conflict starts, and usually doesn't have a happy ending.

The snake stopped eating because of a serious injury to the bottom jaw that made it unable to eat for nearly two months, not from the glass on it’s enclosure. Now it’s got a fear of mice it has to get over (I tried rat fuzzies and even a hamster pups). I try about every week but she hisses and fleas from them. I’m going to give her two weeks and try to go extra small with a live pinkie in a confined space over night.

I too have had rescue animals. I picked up a ball that had been thrown out in a dumpster, cage and all. He had three sheds on and was nearly blind. Not a sign of a heat source either. He is fat and happy and looks perfect as dose the rest of my collection.

I’m pretty sure her problem is psychological and not environmental. If you have a suggestion on something I should try as far as environmental, I would be willing to try. I have described my set up so instead of saying just change, give me a specific thing you think would help.

Thanks.

NP

Dude, I'm not able surf the internet every day unlike some people, so give it a rest. The concept is still pretty simple. Change things untill you find something that works. Add hide boxes, move hide boxes, elevate your basking temps while lowering your ambient, elevate your basking spot, add branches, move branches, intertwine the branches, try different substrate, Etc., and most of all learn how to read the animal because it is telling you what it needs, you just don't understand the language

You have one heck of a nice looking snake. Love the yellow.
And thanks about commenting my snakes ^_^
-----
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Rex- "normal" orange fire)
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Glutany- German Giant Mix)
0.1.0 Okeetee Corn (Okatee)
1.1.0 Spotted Python (Hotdog and Shoelace)

Thanks! The yellow didn’t come out as bright a she really is. I’ll have to take her out side (if it is ok with “Ericlvins”) and get a picture on me for comparison. Where did you get your pair?

I got both mine from kingsnake classified ads. My female came from a private collector with over 200 snakes who had to pay $30,000 in child support. My male, he's 66% het. granite, I got from Gary Kettering, who I think got it from VPI (or whatever). Hoping to breed them next year. I dunno what the min weight/size for a breeding female is, so I figure next year she'll be about the right size.
-----
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Rex- "normal" orange fire)
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Glutany- German Giant Mix)
0.1.0 Okeetee Corn (Okatee)
1.1.0 Spotted Python (Hotdog and Shoelace)

I wouldn't tube feed her yet.

While 7 months seems like a really long time it is definitely within their capabilities. I don't know who told you a year, but that is very arbitrary. They can go much longer, or they could starve in 4 months, just depends on temps, their health, and their individual metabolism. She is not underweight so I wouldn't force feed yet. Tube feeding is VERY stressful.

How often are you attempting to feed her? It shouldn't be more then about once per week. I have seen snakes who just get turned off to the whole idea because owners are shoving a mouse in their face every 15 minutes.

Beautiful snake by the way.

Side story - I new a girls once who rescued a boa constrictor. A live mouse had bitten off, and completely removed the snakes tongue. Without the tongue the snake had no feeding response. After 14 months she force fed it a small mouse a few times. After 17 months (and only 3 mice, for a 7 footer) he finally started eating again. Healthy as a horse today, you just gotta watch out cuz he'll strike at anything with no sense of smell!

So true about waiting, I learned that with my blood. Mine ate great wile a friends did not. I found out he was trying to feed it every other day and bumping its nose with a F/T mouse. That was one stressed blood!

Thanks for the advice; I hope she eats on her own soon.

She ate on her own for the first time in 8 months! It was barley a fuzzy mouse but she did it! She would need a bowl full of them to make a real meal but it’s a start. She hissed at it and fled but I left her alone and it was gone. I’ll offer her a slightly larger one every week until she is back to her piggish self.

Thanks everyone!