Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This little beardie was born at River City Exotics Pet Store on April 30th, 2007. All of the other babies in the clutch hatched out normal. As of today May 2nd he is still alive. He can move all 8 of his legs. He is having trouble keeping himself balanced though.

That's just to weird

Quig
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Don't interupt me when I'm talkin' to myself

wow thats amazing. probably twins that did not develop correctly. unfortunately the survival rate from mutations like this are not great. it already looks like the extra body is suffering from calcium defeciency with the crooked tail and all. but who knows this one may make it, only time will tell. pretty interesting to see. i have seen a dragon with 2 heads on one body, and one born with a curly cue tail that they named "piggy" but never one like this with 2 bodies.
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Beach Beardies

2.4. bearded dragons
1.0. Turquoise x Sunburst Veiled Chameleon
1.1. Sugar Gliders
0.2. Felines *queen athena and missy*

Siamese twins in dragons has come up time to time but this is the first one I have heard of with two bodies. Hopefully you have him humanely euthanized. There is no way it will survive and even if it did, it would not have a very good quality of life.
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PHLdyPayne

That's a terrible thing to say!

>>That's a terrible thing to say!

It is kind of terrible...but in a way, she is right. The second body is looking bad already. Chances are...the second body looked bad from the day it left the egg. If it is kept with other hatchlings and the other ones are hungry, they will most likely nip at him/her/him-her. But the owner is at a pet store, so someone is around it all the time.

But on the other hand, it is very interesting. One thing that i am wondering is if the dragon poops from from both butts. It would have to have 2 seperate digestive systems...sometimes the cricket goes to the right...sometimes to the left. two hearts? thats a lot of extra blood to pump around.

What are humane ways to euthanize dragons? CO2?
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a free range dragon is a happy dragon

Thats awesome, I hope it breeds with itself and you get a line of double bodied bearded dragon babies that can reproduce on their own. Youll make a million bucks. Call me when you get those babies

quote from pinkywinky
"Thats awesome, I hope it breeds with itself and you get a line of double bodied bearded dragon babies that can reproduce on their own. Youll make a million bucks. Call me when you get those babies"

thats probably the dumbest thing ive ever heard in these forums, LOL no offense. not only is this not possible, its inhumane to wish this to happen. this is a mutation, something that went genetically wrong, and this dragon is probably in pain. the extra body will probably die off, it already looks bad as it is. this will probably kill the other dragon eventually.
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Beach Beardies

2.4. bearded dragons
1.0. Turquoise x Sunburst Veiled Chameleon
1.1. Sugar Gliders
0.2. Felines *queen athena and missy*

how do you know the other bodies in bad shape? it could just be formed like that when born. not always with conjoined twins are both physically "perfect". both bodies could be perfectly healthy, all things considered. It probably should eat more than normal.
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1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Rex- "normal" orange fire)
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Glutany- German Giant Mix)
0.1.0 Okeetee Corn (Okatee)
1.1.0 Spotted Python (Hotdog and Shoelace)

obviously im not 100% sure but from the pics of the dragon, the extra body shows kinks in the tail, which is probably signs of MBD or spinal deformation or problems. im going by past information and studies that have been done, but obviously im not 100% sure because its not my dragon. if it were i would have had it to a vet asap and even sent off to a specialist at a university if needed.
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Beach Beardies

2.4. bearded dragons
1.0. Turquoise x Sunburst Veiled Chameleon
1.1. Sugar Gliders
0.2. Felines *queen athena and missy*

Wow! I just realized that all the parents of human siamese twins are wrong to try to keep their babies alive.

So, if my life isn't a quality one I should consider being euthanized? Should I euthanize my mother when the quality of her life starts down hill?

Yes, these analogies are a bit extreme compared to the beardie in question. However, they're not too far off.

I do understand where you're coming from. I don't think anyone wants to see it suffer. The questions then would be; Does that beardie know its suffering? Do we humans really know its suffering? Is it suffering or is it just enjoying a fabulous month or so of special attention & care?
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

lol...i'm not laughing at your post...just the message at the bottom....I'm crazy....so are all my friends! That must mean my wife is crazy too....she married me!
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a free range dragon is a happy dragon

You know its bad when you're 3 friends agree with you that you're the crazy one, as is my case. But then again, I've got a crazy wife, too. Took me 30 yrs to find someone crazy enough to marry me.

To answer your question: "What are humane ways to euthanize dragons? CO2?"

Barbiturates injected intravenously or CO2.

Catch ya later!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

After re-reading my first reply, I felt that it sounded harsher than I intended it to be. I wasn't trying to put you down, embarass or belittle you, I was just trying to make sure that we don't view creatures as dispensable. I think I might've went a lil' over the top. Sorry 'bout that!

Like I said, I understand where you're coming from, and to a certain degree, I agree with you. Based on just the photos and what lil' info that's been posted, I couldn't justifiably suggest euthanization. But, it could come to the point when I could.

Have a good one!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Siamese twins in humans is completely different than in animals. For one, surgery can separate the twins (though sometimes at the expense of one). Humans can also tell you when it hurts, etc. We also have many wonderful technologies to improve quality of life for handicapped people, be it caused by a genetic defect or injury/illness later in life.

We don't have that for lizards unfortunately. Nor can lizards tell you when it hurts etc. In the picture, it doesn't look like that dragon will thrive anyway, most likely one body will wither and die, and the other body will die due to spread of infection. I just feel it would be best for the dragon to humanely euthanize it with CO2 or injection. For a small fee (probably no more than $5) a vet can do that for you.

It wasn't my intention to be harsh or mean when I suggested the dragon be euthanized, my concern was for the welfare of the animal. I know people like to keep such genetic defects as they are unique and thus, something to talk about for the rest of the dragon's life. It may live a couple days, it may live 5 years, I don't know, but I don't think it will thrive. Probably need to be force fed to ensure both bodies get enough nutrition. For all we know it may only have a single digestive tract, or an incomplete one in the second body. Only x-rays from a vet will tell exactly how the internal organs are formed.
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PHLdyPayne

Ah, you're alright, PHLdyPayne.

Like I said, after re-reading my first post I saw how it could be offensive and I wasn't trying to be.

You made valid points, and I also doubt that this lil' fella will survive due to where the bodies are conjoined. If it did have 2 complete digestive systems it would most likely need to be force-fed, like you said, in order to ensure both bodies get what it needs.

The reason I said anything to begin with was because I got the impression that you had already considered it non-survivable by the few photos and few details.

I feel that as long as its not in actual pain and misery, some benefits could become of it all.

Have a good one!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Thanks but then again I had to behave, I am a Mod *grin*

There is no way for me to know 100% if the dragon will be utterly painless and happy etc. but giving how high up on the body they are joined...and the belly pic shows a good chance much of the chest cavity could be shared...it may only have two lungs, (assuming dragons have two lungs normally LOL) may share a heart etc....it may have all kinds of potential problems. The throat may only join up to one stomach, thus the other body may never get any nutrients, other than what is plumped through the blood stream...the etc... it's just so hard to know without x-rays etc.

If the owner of the dragon wants to put the money and effort into it and get it x-rayed and consult with a vet on its survivability with help, that is up to them. In my experience, there are not many people willing to spend that kind of money to ensure a dragon like this lives a full life as well as it is able. The picture also showed kinks in the tail...or what looked like kinks, which could mean spinal defects in the tail or if it has been alive for a few days or a week, a sign of possible MDB in the off body.
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PHLdyPayne

> > >"Thanks but then again I had to behave, I am a Mod *grin*"

Ha! Ha! Sometimes having the handcuffs in your hands is the same as having them on your wrists. You did well!

Yeah, I'd like to think that if I were the owner of this siamese twin beardie that I would be working closely with a qualified Vet. I think I would but sometimes, being in the actual situation changes one's outlook, and vice-versa.

Take care, see ya 'round!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

I have to admit, PHLdyPayne, I was a little suprized...after all, I think that you posted your shortest responce.

We should be calling this mutant bearded dragon(s) conjoined twins, not siamese. We all love bearded dragons and animals. Otherwise we wouldn't take the time to gather more information and help those in need by posting here.

I know that I have never seen a picture of an adult, or even sub-adult for that matter that survived as a conjoined twin. Even in less severe cases where the twins both appear "normal" except they are connected at the belly. This case is not likely to make it. I too believe it should be euthanized at the first sign of suffereing.

jake
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a free range dragon is a happy dragon

That's so cool! Get an x-ray to see if spines are attached. if the other body becomes a problem, just have it removed.
I thought a two-headed turtle was cool, this is even better.
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1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Rex- "normal" orange fire)
1.0.0 Bearded Dragon (Glutany- German Giant Mix)
0.1.0 Okeetee Corn (Okatee)
1.1.0 Spotted Python (Hotdog and Shoelace)

I just wanna know why everyone thinks that CO2 is a "humane" way to kill anything?

Do people really know how it works?

M
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Mike & Wendy

1.0.0 Siberian Husky
0.0.1 RTB
0.0.1 Ball Python
1.1.0 Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Beardie
3.1.0 Future Herper's

Personally I would much rather take her/him to a vet to be euthanized via injection if the decision is made to end the dragon's life. It would not be very expensive for an animal that requires so little of the drug and no professional disposal, and death would come quick and painlessly.