Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Figured I'd run this by you guys before I started work:

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

This is for a single, 2-yr. old Nile.

Hello Nile,
You and your Nile could use some new plans... This is a 2 year old Nile monitor lizards- should be pushing 5-6 feet in length... You have a lot of dirt and very little water for an "aquatic" lizard. Your lights are high and dry- bring them down within the enclosure, close the top. Knock that center wall thing out and let the lizard decide where the dirt goes... BTW that big Retes stack won't serve it's purpose if the light isn't real close and higher wattage- better make that lights so you can go lower on the wattage... I'm not sure that Frank is using them on the big African lizards- ask Him though... Also, keep in mind the weight of that dirt and water, especially the outward force. I hope this is helpful, I'm exhausted- long day. I'm sure someone will toss in some more constructive words... Best to you- Mike

Bah, I didnt do a very good job of making it to scale

But from what ive heard thus far, Im thinkin I should drop it down to like 2.5-3 ft. tall (as opposed to the 4-5 ft it appears in the drawing)

This will bring the lights down to a level where they should be more efficient. I really dont know anything about lighting in the sense of putting the lighting IN the enclosure... how far from the top of a rete's stack do you want the heat source? With, say, a 75(?) watt bulb at distance of 6-8 inches, would that be about right? I know ill have to fine tune it, but any thoughts?

The water will be considerably deeper than it appears there. If im saying that the divider is 2' tall (the depth of the substrate) or thereabouts, the water would prolly be 1.5-2 ft deep as well. Im thinking im going to intermingle the Rete's Stack and the rock pile at the place where the rock pile is labeled. Ill then have an area, approximately 5'long x 3'wide for the water feature.

Normally, I wouldnt try to box my guy in as that divider sorta does, but hes really active and he knocks dirt about so much, that if there isnt something in his way, he turns his water into a muddy hole within 10 minutes of my changing it. I dont have the time to change my animals water once every 2 hours, im sorry to say; so if I put a simple divider in like that, it tends to block alot of the dirt that gets knocked in from his moving about or from him dragging it in as he slips into the water.

Will the overall weight be an issue on the walls of the enclosure? I know thats going to be a ton (literally) of dirt, so will the weight be an issue?

If so, how would one go about strengthening the structure?

Pour a cement footer then build up from that with ply. Solid top, hang the lights inside and wire to the outside. Don't put the wall in, change water every day- it has no gills so clarity and oxygen content are of no matter... lighting should be in strips or rows whichever you choose get them down close - about 6" above the back of the animal and 75s will work fine if you put enough of them... Again, try the stack and see if it's useful with your animal... Rocks are good and lots of dirt as you have planned- again don't be picky about the water, It won't be... I hope this helps a bit- gotta get back to work. Best to you- Mike

"Pour a cement footer then build up from that with ply."

OK, like I said, im not really construction savy here... how would I go about doing this?

"Solid top, hang the lights inside and wire to the outside."

Same as above- no idea how to do that man. I have no idea how to do wiring and im really not trying to get electrocuted in the process, lol. Im extremely paranoid, so i think im just gonna drop the top down close enough to have the lights built in- my animal is VERY active and I really dont want him to wind up ON the lights or something.

"...lighting should be in strips or rows..."

could you explain this abit more, eh, clearly?

"...again don't be picky about the water, It won't be..."

hrm.... I'll keep that in mind. That cant cause a danger of impaction or the like? (ie, drinking the semi-muddy water could bring soil into the digestive tract)Im pretty sure those are usually caused by dehydration, but still, I like this lil guy and I dont want him dying over something stupid like that.

Thanks for the info here Mike.
Greatly appreciated.

Also of note:

I currently live in a rented town house. This means that, while I have quite a bit of empty space, I have to be careful about how I do things- my landlord thinks monitors are "neato" but hes already turned my down on a rodent breeding setup (which I dont mind) and I have to be careful about how I build this cage, so-as to make sure it goes over o.k. with him.

Hes a nice old guy, so as long as Im not making anything TOO extreme, things should be ok.

You need multiple lights in a row to heat up a longer monitor, one light will only heat up part of his body. So you have to make a strip out of wood or something and drill holes to fit multiple lights in a line. It will be almost impossible to give your nile a good home in a tank inside a townhouse. Try renting out a house because once that nile reaches adult size there will be little room for him to be active. 8 feet is not long enough unless this is only temporary. I just had to move out because my room was not large enough for my waters. I'm currently building a cage out a tool shed in my backyard & that is still gonna be small.

2nd draft:

Unless someone can tell me why I should remove that center divider, i think im gonna stick with it- just because it serves as a slight barrier between the water and the soil and that really suits me well (im not sure im making this clear- water literally becomes a pool of mud, lol. i think this may be because there nightcrawlers and crayfish living in the substrate that he digs up and this results in alot of dirt being tossed about). Im thinking you are worried about weight so Ill ask you to look below, as the next part may alter this abit.

WIth the cement thing- would it basically just be something made out of cement to fill the role usually played by a stock tub? Just wondering. Im thinking of using a stock tub for the water feature (using a siphon to change water)- thoughts on this?

Ive lowered the cage height to bring the lights closer to the aniaml.

Ive also combined the Rete's Stack and rock pile; moving the lights as well to suit. The lights arent set *exactly* as they will be, as ill make use of the "rows"(thnx to both mike and love4 for their info) , and there will be more of them. I just didnt feel like altering the original design too much until i know exactly what im goin for.

Love4, it sounds like youre really working to fit your animals, and thats cool, but thats not my situation. First off, my housing isnt based off my animals- its based off my permission to keep these animals in the house, and my income.

2nd: A 2-bedroom, 2 bath townhouse, with a completely empty, finished basement thats well heated and insulated (no drafts) is i THINK big enough to house a single Nile. Only one bedroom is filled, the other being empty(this is where he is at the moment), but thats not really important. What IS important (at least in this instance) is the basement: 15'long x 12' wide x 8' cielings. If you take another look at the cage, its basically a 10'long x 3'wide x 3' tall enclosure + an 8' long x 2' wide x 3' tall enclosure (a 5'x3' water area + 7'/5' long x 5'/3' wide x 3' tall land area with 2' substrate). Im not 100% here, but I think that should be sufficient.

Any thoughts?

Side Note: Looking at it now, Im wondering if perhaps having a 2 cage setup with a linking "bridge" might be workable.... would there be any benefit of adding say, an 8'x2'x2' stock trough? This would get kinda complicated, but it might be interesting... lemme know.

hey bud not sure if this was covered with your set up, but I remember reading here often that reptiles dont care about ambient temp, they care about mass temps...and the problem with anything on the floor of a basement is you will 'lose' to the earth so to speak. It will suck the heat out of your enclosure, the overhead heat will not be able to compete for an overall proper thermoreg.

I think I have that right...and the solution was to either get it up off the floor or maybe use a separate water heater to run a hot water pipe under the substrate.

Anyway, food for thought...nice effort on the planning, I say go for it. That's when you will really learn, I have found no matter how much I plan it changes 5000 times anyway. Plus once you get him in there he will dictate more changes. Sounds like fun.

Tom

Thanks for the input Tom. A secondary water heater isnt gonna happen, but I can prolly think of a way to get it off the floor (not much mind you, but im guessing the idea here is just to make it so it dosnt contact the ground as much).

The gears are turning, hehe

Im thinking incorporating concrete might be the best bet, but Im not sure how just yet. I need this cage to be, at least, semi-transportable. Not like it needs to be moved around ALOT, just getting it out if/when I move, etc. This kinda makes the concrete a no-go, but I might be able to figure something out. Im guessing that a concrete base of this size would be too heavy for furniture dollys or the like?

The easy answer here would be stock tubs, but they dont really make one thats the right size for what im working with (in terms of both space for the animal and ability to get into my home).

Any suggestions here, as to alternate building styles or routes of containment would be greatly appreciated- Im just kinda wingin it with my personal knowledge here, and some experienced help from a fellow i know who does construction/carpentry when it comes down to the actual building.

Basically, Ive got (for the most part) my entire basement to work with, though I cant really alter the structure of the house itself in any way and have to be careful not to cause TOO much damage

Its carpeted (damn it) and well insulated, has a sink within easy access (should make siphoning a large water feature alot easier) and a sliding door access to the back yard (door was JUST short of fitting an 8' round stock tub when I was measuring).

The animal is a 2 yr old Nile, loves to dig, NOT people friendly (ie, dosnt get handled so wont be leaving his cage often).

Again, any help is greatly appreciated as I have to get started on this thing in the next week.

If you need a concrete footing but also need it not to be permanent try interlocking concrete blocks. people use these to build lanscape retaining walls. The stack together and lock to each other. They are strong enough to hold back tons of dirt. After you get high enough you could transistion to wood. The blocks are not water tight like poured concrete so you may need to address seepage or not. depends on the room.

If you ever move you can take them with you. They are not cheap though.

Here are some cages of similar construction. These are the indoor part of indoor outdoor cages. These are 3ft by 6ft, the outdoor part is 4ft by 10ft and 8ft high, with ponds made with the same concrete style.

Yes, dirt will blow up any wood framed cage. dirt/earth and water, causes compaction and expansion. This type stemwall construction is even cheaper then stick build, once you make the molds. And it will take the weitght and moisture. Also in many areas you can rent the molds.

If you are not familiar with this type of construction, I would hire someone or look to a different method. Good luck

Ah, thanks for the pics Frank

Hi Frank,
I remember you posting some of those pics a while back. Those are some nice cages. I hope that I can do something like that at some point. Are they two stories or is the window on the top just for access to the upper section?

Steve

The top cages are for any monitor thats being bad. hahahahahahahaha. Or I bring in some from outside during the winter. Right now, they are all empty(the top cages)

I wish I built my whole building that way, you know, with concrete stemwalls about four feet up, all the way around. You would not have to worry about water to termites or the building washing away.

I will be fun to watch others build(break their back) nice cages. Cheers

Thus far, Im betting on either a broken toe/finger, a thrown out back, or im gonna muck my wrist up again (violently broke my wrist in 5 places, sending shards of bone out into my hand).

Now taking bets, haha

If you are intent on using wood, use it properly.

The floor is a complete waste of wood, and would sag under the weight of the water and dirt.

Use less 2x4's and rotate them like you would see in house framing. You will want to at least run the 2x4's straight up the sides, or they will bow out. 2x2's are a waste, not worth messing with, IMO.

You can get heavy duty cast iron casters at Harbor Freight. They will not be cheap, but placed properly (and with big enough lag bolts) should hold the cage without a problem.

I wouldn't go very low on height, unless you like crawling on your belly with your lizards. Cage maintenance on large cages requires you to reach all parts in the cage. I usually do it with lizards in, which can be interesting with argus and some cranky male peachies, but it saves time.

I would rethink the quantity of water for a wooden cage though.

Good Luck,

--Robert

I am going to agree with Robert keep the hieght, I have some shorter front opening cages and I hate them. Digging up eggs hunched over and half way in a hot monitor cage sucks big time. You might not be digging up eggs with a lone animal but you are still going to be doing some maintaince. I would make the access as convient for you as possible. I would also be sure that I installed a drain in that water feature. Even if it is just a spout that you can put a 5 gallon bucket under. As for the lights you can put them on a platform that is on chains. That way you can raise or lower it to adjust the temps.

Steve

Hi Robert, How have you been? well I hope, and the family? again well I hope. What have you been up too, missed you lately.

Anyway, stop by the old site and PM me, I will fill you in on the going ons. Cheers

All is well, just have been busy. I'll PM you.

--Robert

Who is this RobertBushner?? Where did he come from, this man of mystery????

How's the crazy male peachie?

Hope all is well.

Hey Rich,

I guess I kind of dropped out of the loop for a while there. Project crunches are fun.

>How's the crazy male peachie?

He's doing good, except for that stick and leaf eating habit, I think he has a genuine concern about the amount of fiber in his diet.

--Robert