Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was out looking for lizards at Castlewood State Park, near St. Louis, MO, when I came across this snake consuming a mouse with two pups attached.

I assumed it was a black rat snake, but a poster on the photo forum thought it might be a black racer. I was in a wooded area below limestone bluffs, about 50 ft from the banks of the Meramac river.

Not being a snake person myself, I thought I'd let the people on this forum take a look. The snake wasn't in a cooperative mood, trying to escape with its meal, and this is the best shot I have. I'm a little color blind so I wouldn't count on the snake's colors being 100% accurate after my attempts at adjusting contrast and saturation.

I think its a racer did you get a shot of the hole body? that would help

I still think it looks like a Ratsnake.

I also think that Racers in St. Louis would be more blue-gray than black. You don't see jet black racers from this part of the country, AFAIK.
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

That snake is most definately a black racer. Large eyes and head scalation give this away. What a great photo, and an awesome sight to encounter.
Mike Collalto

Here's another angle. I haven't modified the color or anything, just a little sharpening. Snake wanted out of there badly.

Chris H. is right I believe! At this angle strongly resembles a black ratsnake, not a racer, as the scale count looks high, and the scales look slightly keeled on top, so, I'm going to say black rat. Anyone else have any thoughts?
Mike C

Did you happen to see when it first caught the mouse? A black rat would have consticted it in the normal fashion whereas a racer would have just pressed it to the ground with part of it's body.
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What goes up must come down...unless it exceeds escape velocity.

um im not sure now im thinking rat snake lol

>>Did you happen to see when it first caught the mouse? A black rat would have consticted it in the normal fashion whereas a racer would have just pressed it to the ground with part of it's body.

There does not seem to be any noticeable keels and the eyes do seem overlarge. which suggests racer.

The mouse is a deer mouse. Babies instinctively hang on to the mother when nursing. I would think if it was a black rat snake it would have constricted it's prey which would have included the two babies. The one baby from the angle of the photo is very much alive. A racer as noted above would have only tried to press the mouse to death therefore not as likely to kill both mother and babies. The mother mouse also looks to have been mouthed pretty good by the snake...very wet fur. Which suggests again, racer.

The light and shadows on the second pic makes it hard to see any good details... so the snake could be racer or black rat...again I would lean more towards racer due to the eye ridge.

Did you get a look at the belly of the snake while it reared up in the air? All glossy black would be racer, black/white checkers would be black rat.
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PHWyvern

I agree with the racer group. I see no keels, & the live baby would have been killed by a constrictor.

~~Greg~~

I did not see the snake catch the mouse. When I first noticed the snake, I saw a long section of it on top of the log, and then when I approached it pulled its head out from under the log, revealing the mouse and two pups. One pup dashed away, the other held on to mom while the snake went into the woods. All I saw the snake do with the mouse was hold it in its mouth.

I did not see the snake's belly.

Here's a shot that reveals more scales, especially on the mid-section of the snake.

And thanks for all of the replies. This has been very interesting.

I go with Racer as well

Mike

I'm going back to my original response. A racer, definately; in your neck of the woods possibly a yellow-bellied/ blue intergrade. This shot seals the description.
Mike C

100% Racer. Plus you said that the snake was trying to escape while you were taking pics, which points to racer. If it was a rat snake then it would not have tried to run instead it would've just "crinkled up" and froze in position. If anyone is familiar with rat snakes the you know what "crinkle" means.

omg now im back to thinking racer after seeing the head

Also a rat snake would have constricted the mouse, dislodging the pups. Racers don't constrict.

With it's jaws all contorted with the Deer Mouse in it, it is certainly not the easiest photo to identify!. Although it certainly does resemble a Black Ratsnake, all the evidence(eyes, scalation,coloration(in second pic),ocular ridge,babies not being constricted, and tendency to escape with prey held high, all point to it being a Racer!..........also, that is a definite "once in a lifetime" photo you captured!!......in forty years of being involved with snakes, I've honestly yet to see a feeding photo that would beat that one!!....that is truly unique!!

Although rare, in certain circumstances, a ratsnake will not constrict it's prey if it doesn't feel the need to......e.g. if the prey is very small and defenseless, or if the snake cannot get around the prey animal, like if the mouse was in a tight hole underneath the log only big enough for the mouse to fit into!, then it would just clamp down on it immediately to subdue it, and continue to keep working it down into the throat.

~Doug
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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"