Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So, I went to our local swap meet today and was looking around when I saw a father and young kid buy a Nile monitor. At first I was like OK maybe its for the Dad, but as I listened more it was for the kid, when I heard the dad ask if cypress mulch was what he should use and then he asked so I should give this thing a little water bowl, and cuffed his hands together and the guy who sold it, say ya somthing like that.

I have learned a lot reading posts in here and all I could think of as I walked away was that poor lizard, and how come there is people in our herp world who do not look out for people. I was sicken, and thought ya know people who sell these things should have a license to sell so they can advise people properly what they are getting into. So they do not end up letting it go somewhere. I hope that the person who sold it reads this, because that is a busch league move for $20.00. I regret not saying anything, like this is not a good move and there are some bearded dragons one isle over.

Sorry for the rant, I just could not beleive what I was seeing and hearing. Its like the guy who tried to sell a Ball Python saying it eats crickets for its meals.
-----
0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger
1.0 Amel Retic
0.1 Ball Python
0.1 Red Tail
0.1 Blood Python
1.0 Green Ananconda
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa

So what good would a license be? Most license's are not about how to do something right, or how to be a good person. They mostly make sure people know how to pay their taxes.

You are right, its sad, but its worse for the poor animal. Cheers

definitely a negative situation, but overall, i would say that is more the norm than the exception. hundreds of thousands of lizards are sold each year, but only a small percentage of those purchasers have even 20% of the husbandry info they need.

disposable animals, not a good thing.
-----
robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Tell me about it...

How many of these struggling-to-hydrate savannah monitors lived through the Expo or 2 weeks even after in someones 10 gallon fishtank?

That is a nasty pic. Dang.

That's the sort of thing that makes me want to avoid shows.

Makes me wanna go and tell the vendors what's wrong. I really believe it's pure ignorance. Some of these guys say 'thanks', some basically say 'f off' or 'whatever' - but it's worth a try. I mainly go to photograph and stock up on cheap feeders w/o shipping fees. I used to ignore this crap, but lately i'm getting proactive and taking pics and making a stink about it.

I went to a show a few weeks ago and saw the same thing.

Only monitors available were Niles and Savs, all were tiny babys and all were kept in tiny containers just like that pic.

The only other monitors I saw were 2 "display only" animals at one table: a REALLY tiny peachy labled 'Mangrove Lizard' and an argus.

I only hope that each one of us has the guts to say something when we see it happening. Educate. Some know better, some think it is alright, the norm as Robyn stated... Best to you all- Mike

At least it was a nile (not that makes it any better) try seeing people but hots that you know shouldn't have them. At show here not far from my city of residence to many unlearned people are buying gators & hots.I try to tell the vendors to ask people if they are aware of the animals husbandry before they sell it to a buyer with yrs. of going some have actually seen the light & make sure the buyer has some knowledge. I kicked my own rear end some yrs. ago when someone I introduced to the show got 4 hots & then asked me how to take of them. Needless to say he was only an asociate (not a good friend) so after my fussing with him over the STUPID move he made he gave 2 away the others I'm not sure & we don't speak.

That pic of the Savs, is just sick. I feel bad for all of them, I wonder how many died in that thing.

That part we are lucky about, they do not sell hots at this show, but I could imagine all the fools, saying how cool it was to own a rattlesnake until they get hit.

I must say, I have learned a lot by reading posts in here about monitors and reading care sheets by Pro Exotic and so on, I just wish others would do the same. There is nothing sadder than what goes on. I look back to when I got my first Water Dragon, I was lied to by the pet store and then it died, so I got another, and it died. I was in 7th grade. I wish they had this kind of forum for me to learn about when I was that young. All the poor animals that died because I thought I was doing right but advised wrong.
-----
0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger
1.0 Amel Retic
0.1 Ball Python
0.1 Red Tail
0.1 Blood Python
1.0 Green Ananconda
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa

The problem with trying to say something to a vendor at one of these shows is 2-fold:

1. Slime-balls

By which, I mean the slimey bastards that dont care/pretend to not know any better. These people truly make me sick.

They see animals as nothing more than merchandise, some lower life form that simply isnt a priority, and thus dont care what happens to them. If you try to tell these people what they are doing wrong, they often already know, and will either attempt to make you look like an ass (see below) or pretend they didnt know any better. Unless you are someone this person is likely to respect or listen to, theres almost no chance that they are going to give a DAMN about what you have to say, what you think, etc. Even if they pretend to do something to change what you see, it will likely be back that way as soon as you are gone.

2.Scene Makers

These people, when "cornered" with a question to which they have no good answer, will instead choose to "make a scene".

They will get loud and confrontational, because often times this will send the person running from that table, not trying to get involved in something that could get them kicked out or in trouble.

Ive seen them try to wave off an intelligent person's input, claiming themselves to be breeders and experienced, when in reality they are simply importers of diseased animals.

Hell, I was looking at the tiny Niles at that last show and the guy came over to me. I told him it really wasnt good to have that many monitors together like that in such a small space. A boy and his dad who were buying a tiny Sav from the same fellow overheard and began listening in before they paid for the animal. The vendor asked why I thought that to be so, and I ticked off disease and stress right off the bat. The vendor waved that off, more to towards the dad and son than towards me, saying "Oh, these animals are often crammed together in the nest when they are young, so this is no big deal for them."

I tried to tell him otherwise, but he just shook his head and walked away. I came back to the table later and heard him telling a mom and son about how he "breeds these animals and knows them very well" (in this case, Niles and Savs....*cough*bullsh!t*cough*), told her that a 20 gal. aquarium would be good for either of those species for the first year or so, and that they might get big if theyre fed mice... but that you SHOULD feed them crickets..."It keeps them from getting too big." was his reasoning there...

Really makes me sick.

I know people dont like bringing legislature into the hobby, but honestly, its getting to the point with this many animals dying, that I think people SHOULD require a liscense of some sort to keep these animals. And not just a "walk in, pay $30, walk out with permit" style liscense.

You should be required to get a seperate permit for each species, and to get each permit you should be required to pass an exam regarding said species (mainly their care) and/or spend a certain amount of time with said animal- if you had to spend 3 hours playing with a Nile/Sav in a pet store before you could buy it, how many people do you think would get bored and put them back?

Maybe thats just my American tendency to turn towards the government when things seem unjust, but something NEEDS to be done here. Its disgusting that, as humans (supposedly superior on the plane on intelligence), we allow this sort of stuff to go on.