Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a very important question, can frogs have strokes? I received 2 new (small) Aurotaenias on Thursday. I put them in the tank with the other Auro that I have had for a couple of months. Within 2 1/2 hours one of the new frogs (the larger of the 2) was floating in the water dish upside down. The water was not deep, so I came to the conclusion that the original frog may have tried to kill it. So I took the dead frog out and looked very carefully for any signs of life. No visible heartbeat nor breathing movements were seen. So I put him on top of the tank and then left for dinner. When we got home, he had gotten into a sitting up position, moved one of his hind legs and closed one of his eyes. I was so excited that he wasn't dead! So I put him into the plastic container he arrived in (with moistened moss and a potho leaf) and put the lid on (there are air holes too). I called the breeder and she told me to put 2 drops of sugar water on his back to see if it helps. She said that maybe he was severely stressed. It appeared to help. But he was still lethargic, and didn't move much at all. A couple of times I checked on him he was visibly shaking, but I knew the temp was okay. I also put his enclosed container in one of my other tanks to help hold in heat and offer some fluorescent light. He was covered, too, with the leaf. Still, he seems to be dragging his back legs. They don't appear to be working much. He kind of uses his front legs and drags the hind ones. When he gets to his back, he's unable to turn himself back over. He still shakes occasionally too.

I feel really sad for him and I don't know what to do. Does it sound like a stroke? A broken back? Should he be euthanized?

Please help me, I don't want "Lucky Frog" to suffer. Thanks for all replies.

Ruthie

i have no idea what is up with your frog, but why didn't you quarentine it? if it has something bacterial your other frogs probally have it now too. you need to get fecals or at least take a look at their scat under a microscope to see if there's anything moving. or at least observe them. a lot of times with stuff this small prevention is the only cure.

He was fine when he arrived. He had no trouble moving or hopping at all. My opinion is that either the original frog tried to dominate him or he was severely stressed and perhaps had a stroke or maybe a heart attack or just the lack of oxygen to nhis brain. After he was recovered from the water dish, he was never the same. He was unable to eat and therefore perished. I felt really bad for him. I won't be putting the other Auro in with the original until the newest gains some size.

Thanks for the response.

i think you're missing the whole point of quarentine, just because he was hopping around and looked for the 10 minutes you've watched him, or even hour or two, doesn't mean he's healthy. quarentine is a short term thing that you should try for at least a month, 3 being better. and when you put any animals together, esp. darts because they're so territorial you need to watch them! if you noticed one that wasn't getting any bigger, or hanging out in the corner hiding instead of with the other ones hopping around you should do something about it. what would make you think he had a heart or brain attack? how does the whole waterdish thing tie in? if he never was the same after it, then i dobt it was a heartattack, because neither heart or brainattacks have any symptoms before they actually happen. did you ever take him out when you saw he wasn't eating?

No, I'm not missing the "whole point of quarantine". My original frog is healthy and has been since I purchased him in October. The new frogs I just received were still being housed together at the breeder's. Therefore I saw no reason to quarantine them from one another.

As for the water dish, the frogs had been in their tank for about 3 hours. When I got home, the [now-deceased] frog was upside down in the water dish. I removed him immediately and set up a separate, very basic tank. But he could barely move around. If he were to try to pull himself towards a potho leaf and rolled onto his back he could not get back onto his belly.

He was never the same after removing him from the water dish. His movements were few and occasionally he would have jerky movements in one (and sometimes both) of his hind legs.

I never saw him eat, so I am assuming he probably starved.

Sometimes once simply can't come up with a reason for death, since what Ruthie's frog's symptoms were that of a "dying frog" and not specific to any particular disease or injury. It was probably not eating because it was sick, not the other way around, but that's a moot question right now.

When a frog is injured or stressed for some reason, this will tend to lower its immunity, so that formerly suppressed gut parasites, bacteria and normally benign organisms have an opportunity to become pathogenic. Even in a totally isolated nursery tank, one cannot always see everything that goes on. It could have happened even sometime before the move and only manifested itself a bit later after the frog was in its new home.

I generally keep froglets or juveniles that were previously tank mates and same-size siblings together rather than separating them into different quarantine or nursery tanks with no particular problem. I think the situation was handled about as well as it could be where it wasn't possible to tell what happened.

Very few people have the convenience of a nearby emergency type herp vet, and shot-gun treatments with antibiotics or parasiticides can cause more problems in the long run than they may or may not accidentally "cure," so I never recommend experimenting with them. First aid consists in assuring hydration and restoring electrolyte balance with something like Pedialyte in a water soak. Even this has a down-side if there happens to be skin lesions, as the glucose ingredient may encourage fungal infections, but it will often save a dehydrated frog. Some frogs are simply weaker than others for various reasons and wouldn't survive long in the wild, either. There may be rare unexplained losses like this, and it's always worse when it happens to someone with their first frogs. Just don't be discouraged. The others will more than likely be fine.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

D. auratus blue, auratus Ancon Hill, galactonotus orange, galactonotus yellow, fantasticus, reticulatus, imitator, castaneoticus, azureus, pumilio Bastimentos. P. lugubris, vittatus, terribilis mint green, terribilis orange.