Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click for ZooMed
Click here to visit Classifieds

Good News from Matt @ ISETT's Offic

Eby May 06, 2007 05:51 PM

I just go in and found this email in my inbox. Sounds VERY promising. Some of us my need to send apologies to Matt and Rep Isset. If the promised amendment is submitted, we should all send our thanks. This may be a chance to create an ally out of someone we thought was an enemy.

Mr. Eby,

As you know, HB2414 will be heard on the House floor on Monday. This is because the House did not reach that point on the calendar on Friday, however, we were going to postpone until Monday regardless. The reason is because we have been working on amendments with other members.

The purpose of this email is to inform you of what will occur, or at least as far as our plans are concerned. This past Friday morning I tried to reach an individual associated with the group by phone, but there was no answer and my message was not returned. I hope you will copy and paste this message into the message board which the community has been using to discuss this bill so that others can be in the know.

Our office has worked with several other offices, whom I know the herpetological community has worked with themselves this session, in order to craft amendments to mollify the concerns of those interested. Recently we approached a member about their concerns and have worked on and agreed to an exemption for reptile collection which they will offer . This amendment will be added to the bill as acceptable to the author on Monday. I do not know what else will be offered on Monday, but rest assured that we will be looking at them with interest in how they affect your community.

Contrary to popular belief among herpers this bill was not directed specifically at them. Rep. Isett works closely with game wardens and in a conversation with a warden he asked what they needed. They told him that they would like more authority with regard to people hunting on the right-of-way. Therefore, we investigated the possibility of this bill. In Mr. Sontag's article, he unfairly and incorrectly characterizes this as a "special interest thrust". I am unsure whether this was intentional or just a misuse of the phrase. But either way, the mischaracterization of my statement has done no favors to the perception of anyone's involvement in this bill.

Whether you trust my word or not, there were no special interests involved in this bill aside from our conversations with members and staff here in the Capitol and TPWD. These are not typically entities that are considered "special interests". If they were, then we would also have to include any family of Rep. Isett, such as his son, who is a herp enthusiast himself.

Without further discussion of the issues that this bill does address, herp exclusion or not, the community should understand that Rep. Isett has worked with many individuals in attempting to address the herpers' concerns. To be 100% frank, this bill has never been near the top half of our priority list. In fact, we were content to let it die before it was set for the floor calendar on Friday.

But, due to the extensive involvement in the process from the community we began working on options with other members offices. Indeed much of the speculation and comments about emails from other offices is a result of my visiting with them in person in an effort to develop a compromise.

What has made this process more difficult than it should have been is repeated harassment, name calling, and negative communication directed as this office by individuals in the community. Without naming names I know that the community can identify these individuals because the community itself has noted the problem. We have worked hard to address the concerns of individuals such as yourself and many others who I could name that presented themselves to us with sincerity and respect. The vast majority of phone calls and letters/emails we received were gentlemanly. However there were many that were not. Interestingly, most of those individuals reside in other states.

One source of this negative communication is the assertion that we intentionally did not speak with the herpers. This is patently untrue. We appreciate the involvement of the community in this policy initiative over the last few weeks. The falconers were in the same situation as you were. They then came to us to protest the language and ask for an amendment. Originally they were met with the very same policy decision which was that we had no intent to change the bill. Our discussion with them led us to passing the language with the exemption. Subsequently, your community was made aware and became involved.

In our discussion with the man who was at the public hearing he affirmed to us that he had only become aware of that bill roughly 10 minutes prior. Thus, any opportunity to be involved up to that point was non-existent because we had received no communication from the community or its representatives in regard to this issue. While I realize that the language change is what prompted the discussion, it is important to understand that people come through Rep. Isett's door daily to tell me they don't think they are affected by our bill, but they want to make sure. This is helpful in avoiding any problems.

It is my recommendation for the future that the individual representing the community make this sort of action a priority. This will relieve much of the heartache and financial considerations that I understand this issue has given your group. Understand that your group may hire a representative for a specific reason; to communicate with legislative offices on your behalf. There is little chance we will know about the ramifications on your hobby if your representative does not come to see us about a bill.

I hope this lengthy, yet important, explanation has somewhat cleared the air for you and your colleagues. The majority of the speculation on this issue has been entirely inaccurate and so after my unreturned phone call I felt it my duty to contact you (in light of your previous email) with this discussion. If you have questions about Monday's procedures then I invite you to call me in the office at the number listed below. I would be glad to speak with you.

Sincerely,

Matt Creel
Legislative Director
Representative Carl Isett - District 84
(512) 463-0676

Replies (26)

Eby May 06, 2007 05:55 PM

Please note that Matt requested that I post this email here. It is still advisable not to post names and comments from legislative staff members UNLESS they give permission.

brhaco May 06, 2007 06:16 PM

Do you know who this herp "community member" is whom is drafting the amendment? It DOES sound promising....

Brad Chambers

brhaco May 06, 2007 06:28 PM

Does Mr. Creel have a direct email address so that we can thank him for his time and attention in this matter?

brad Chambers

Eby May 06, 2007 06:39 PM

Matt Creel [Matt.Creel@house.state.tx.us]

Eby May 06, 2007 06:40 PM

I don't know.

I have requested a copy of the amendment text.

Herpo May 06, 2007 06:35 PM

Thisletter really didn't say anything to be joyous about. What it said was "we didn't set out to target herpers" and that representative Islet doesn't like being called names. I saw nothing about its being changed to accomodate recreational herpers.

Eby May 06, 2007 06:48 PM

If Matt and Rep. Isett were planning to burn us, there would be little reason for them to send us this email and request that it be published.

I have requested a copy of the amendment text. However, I don't know if it is considered proper for them to leak the exact text.

I'd recommend that we reach out to Matt and Rep. Isett in the most positive way we can. I've already sent my apology and statement of intent to build a positive relationship for the future.

If they do burn us (as you fear and I doubt) I will have no problem recanting that apology and burning them badly. In fact, this email from Matt would be the most flamable fuel on that fire.

LBenton May 06, 2007 07:26 PM

And am very happy to hear it, I cannot say that I am sure if this was just a simple misunderstanding, or backing out from that rock and hard place. I remember early conversations where it was stated that they had no plans to accommodate us with any changed language. It was second hand info, but was not something to ignore at the time.

But, I can be a turn the other cheek type of guy and will give benefit of the doubt if the new language provides an exemption for Reptiles and Amphibians. Moving forward with this though does not mean I will not dig back and make sure that the office of Mr. Isett was not provided with biased or inaccurate data to promote the need for this bill. After all I just want to be sure we will not be fighting this battle over again any time soon.

I guess I will always have an ounce of doubt to weigh against my trust on this issue. Also what we need to do now that many of us came together over this issue is to lay some foundations of a solid relationship with our Legislators. We also need to keep working on a better relationship with Texas Parks and Wildlife so that all involved can move forward with some common goals. Maybe our Herp societies can each elect an officer to run point on this stuff each year? A Political Liaison that would stay in touch with TP&W and our State Legislators. They can in effect be a small committee representing our interest and needs in the state.

If you think about it, all Texas Wildlife belongs to all Texans, TP&W should work as our steward of that resource and our Legislators should provide them with the tools they need. I think as a whole we have the same goal of conservation, we just need to communicate better.

Let’s start by seeing what the language is like on this bill Monday…. And with any luck we can keep our voice and ears on any new legislation and not have this kind of problem again.

What is important to me now, is to not have this fight all over again...

Lance

brhaco May 06, 2007 07:34 PM

We were really caught behind the eight ball on this one. Let's make sure it doesn't happen again....

Brad Chambers

Eby May 06, 2007 07:36 PM

Below is a follow-up email from Matt. I'm feeling better and better. -Posted with Matt's permission

Mr. Eby,

Thank you for your understanding. Hopefully the rest of the hobby is as reasonable as you are. No apologies are necessary, but your diplomacy is appreciated. One should not be required to apologize for protecting their hobby and we are glad to work together on this issue.

In regard to the article, I understand how that would come across as the "last straw". In retrospect I should have mentioned to Mr. Sontag that the bill was not all about reptiles, even though his questions and approach to the article were. That is the reason that every reference in that article is about reptiles. From my reading of some of the communication between herpers and other legislative offices, there was equally as much license taken with my statements to those offices as there was in the article. This certainly helped contribute to the spiral of tensions. My silence on the issue with the community did not help either, but please understand that I did this to prevent further tensions and to provide time to work on this issue with other offices.

In regard to your request, I would gladly publish the text of the amendment.
However, I do not have it. Another Representative will be the one offering the amendment on Monday, if and when we get to the bill. Rep. Isett has simply agreed to the proposal which is a blanket exemption for reptiles.
Originally I had worked out an amendment that would state that the bill did "not apply to someone who held a permit for scientific, educational, zoological research", etc. This was because all communcation we recieved was that the bill would destroy scientific progess and such. Another idea that I came up with was to propose that it was unlawful to "kill or trap with intent to possess" in order to take care of the photography concern, which was a valid issue. Instead we have agreed to blanket exemption language which I unfortunately will not see until sometime tomorrow morning.

While I have not seen the text rest assured that the amendment will be well crafted and thorough, as it is being offered by one of the offices frequently contacted by the herper community.

I do think that there are valid concerns that this bill addresses and at the same time valid reasons why the herp community would feel this bill was a target and was unwarranted. Perhaps when session is done we will be able to deliberate on the problems that need to be addressed and ways that the State can take action without being at the detriment to hobbyists and conservationsist such as yourself.

Again, thank you for your understanding and always respectful communication.
I look forward to working with you on a well crafted fix to the problems this bill was intended to address.

Sincerely,

Matt

jpenney May 06, 2007 08:18 PM

I spoke with Matt on Fri. via phone. Although I was sceptical about his intentions and I understood that he probably had to keep the various issues close to the vest, he did seem very cordial. I'm hoping he's on the up and up. If so, I (and hopefully the rest of you guys) will be cutting a thank you letter shortly. His point about us not having a rep. to discuss issues was a valid one. If no one is there to say, "wait a minute" how do they know there's a problem. Let's give'em the benefit of the doubt while we remain VERY guarded. Let's keep the phone calls going until this is official news. Oh, and we owe P. Gallegos a sign in the front yard come next election if you know what I mean
Jason
-----
Snakes of Hudspeth County, Texas

Eby May 06, 2007 08:28 PM

>Oh, and we owe P. Gallegos a sign in the front yard come next election if you know what I mean.

ABSOLUTELY. We need to identify all the reps that fought for us and offer them all the support we can manage. Hopefully, all the work to correct this bill will lay the groundwork for a much better future for Texas herps and herpers.

Joe Forks May 06, 2007 08:55 PM

at least two other Reps went to bat for us. Let's see what happens tomorrow.

chrish May 06, 2007 09:28 PM

What has made this process more difficult than it should have been is repeated harassment, name calling, and negative communication directed as this office by individuals in the community. Without naming names I know that the community can identify these individuals because the community itself has noted the problem. We have worked hard to address the concerns of individuals such as yourself and many others who I could name that presented themselves to us with sincerity and respect. The vast majority of phone calls and letters/emails we received were gentlemanly. However there were many that were not. Interestingly, most of those individuals reside in other states.

I don't know how anyone else here feels, but this really pisses me off.

If you want to be a constructive part of the process of stopping this sort of legislation, we are glad to have you in the group, but if you just want to use this as an excuse to rail against a government official or an proposed policy, please do it in representation of some other group of people.

I wish he had given us a specific list of the names of the people who acted this way so we could at least "shun" them.

As he clearly stated, this sort of angry rhetoric doesn't help the process, it hurts it.
-----
Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

stevenxowens792 May 06, 2007 09:56 PM

It gets peoples attention. I will be the first to admit that I haven't harrassed or called anyone names. But maybe I should have...! Why? Cause it gets attention. If we don't have a representative or spokeperson than what better way to get publicity. What other way to get people looking in our direction.

It takes all kinds of support to get this type of thing changed.
Kinda like the ol' "Good Cop, Bad Cop" deal. I am sure some folks on this site play the good cop, some may play the bad cop. Either way I appreciate both cops if they can get this thing worked out in a way that benefits everyone.

Steven

chrish May 08, 2007 10:45 AM

Actually I disagree.

When they say it doesn't help, I suspect it doesn't help.

I lot of positive, well informed input is better. The pissing and moaning and name calling just makes us look bad as a community.
-----
Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

chris_mcmartin May 06, 2007 10:08 PM

>>I just go in and found this email in my inbox. Sounds VERY promising.

Being cynical, it almost seems like a Trojan horse--"hey, there's no need for concern, all of y'all please stop calling and emailing," then BOOM--the bill passes.

If reptiles are going to be exempted from the bill, what about amphibians? Are the invert guys SOL then?

If hunting with firearms from the road is already illegal, and other classes of animals commonly hunted from rights-of-way will be exempted, what's the point of the bill again?

I WILL need to rework my letter, at any rate!
-----
Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

Eby May 06, 2007 10:25 PM

>>Being cynical, it almost seems like a Trojan horse--"hey, there's no need for concern, all of y'all please stop calling and emailing," then BOOM--the bill passes.

Whether or not the email is legit (and I believe it is), we should all keep calling. All this changes is the focus of our calls. Request that they support the exclusion and request that they vote against the bill if the exclusion is not added.

As far as I understand, the remaining purpose of the bill will be to make enforcement of non-game hunting with firearms or traps a little easier. I don’t think the current law about firing weapons along the road is a TPWD regulation and the wardens prefer to enforce their own laws instead of generic state laws. Also, I think the prohibition on firearms is only if you’re on the road or firing across the road.

rpelaez May 06, 2007 10:31 PM

Animal = terrestrial vertebrate, so the invert guys are good to go. Strangely enough, I'd become one if this bill passes...

R

antelope May 07, 2007 12:57 AM

agreed, I caught the 'phibs being forgotten, and have a tarantula or two! Clear as a bell is what we need!
Todd Hughes

rpelaez May 07, 2007 10:35 AM

If Isett’s kid truly is a herp enthusiast, and if Isett does something proactive to warrant a thank you from our community (not condemnation), I can think of no better “thank you” than to take Carl Jr. out on a herp trip and let him experience the majesty first-hand of hunting for, and finding an alterna, or any snake for that matter.

R

Eby May 07, 2007 01:03 PM

GREAT IDEA !

LBenton May 07, 2007 04:41 PM

I thought about that too, but then I thought what if his kid is nine years old... I just let it go in my mind at that point

But if we get some good language we should invite them down for the South Texas Herp Society Meeting in Sanderson... I think it is on June 10th

Lance

LBenton May 07, 2007 04:42 PM

Scratch that not South Texas Herp Society... West Texas Herp Society...

Lance

rpelaez May 07, 2007 04:51 PM

Then, we can let "Uncle" John Hollister take him out to go "Herping the Trans-Pecos" LOL.

R

jpenney May 07, 2007 06:38 PM

But then there's that second hand smoke issue The first thing Isset would do when he got back would be to write a "no smoking while herping law". Sorry John, just had to gig you a bit.
JP
-----
Snakes of Hudspeth County, Texas

Site Tools