Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Can anyone point me in the direction of some comprehensive information on BRB genetics? Morphs?

Thank you in advance.
-----
Danielle

Herps:
1.0 BRB
1.0 Amel Motley Corn
----------------------
Other critters:
1.0 Great Dane
1.0 Siamese
1 Senegal Parrot
1 Blue Fronted Amazon

Hi Danielle,

Welcome to the rainbow forum. I'm reposting my reply from the morph forum so the others won't be filling in the same info and can simply add to what I've already posted.

There is a Rainbow Boa forum on KS where this might be better replied to but I can give you some info here. There are three known simple recessive morphs at this time along with several polygenic or line bred visual pattern anomalies.

Simple recessive morphs are:

Hypomelanistic. Two known lines and one (that I know of) possible new line. Mike Lockwood of tooscaley reptiles produced the first know hypomelanistic BRB from two siblings he bought from EBV. Nobody knew of the morph back then and in all probability the babies he bought each received their recessive gene from the same parent. Mike sold the first litter back to EBV and they used them to start the EBV line that is the most common at this time. Some examples:

Hypo Dottie (Produced by Mike)

Hypo Dumbo (also produced by Mike)

Hypo Mickey (Produced by Exotics by nature from EBV stock)

There is also a Darren Bell line I have no details about. I believe they are from a different source and don't know if any work has been done to see if they are compatible.

The third line is from a gravid, wild caught female. She dropped her litter at the distributor in Florida. Don't know if he directly imported her or if he just ended up with her before dropping her litter. Either way, her litter of 8 babies contained a wicked looking striped hypo. Stripes like I've never seen on a BRB before. I liked the hypo so much I purchased the entire group, mom and 8 babies. I'll be raising the group for a couple of years and then will be working with them to determine who is het for what through breeding trials. I hope not only to prove out the hypo but also to recreate the striping.

Some pics:

New Hypo female "Genevieve"

The second known recessive morph is Anerythristic. There are a couple of lines out there but I am only familiar with the one from Brian Sharp. I like his because they seem to retain their baby colors better including the white crescent. I have a couple of them and more on order from this years coming babies.

Some pics:

Anery from Brian Sharp "Tawney"

Last "known" morph is the elusive albino BRB. Purportedly Outback reptiles has one or more and if so is of course working towards producing more. Will have to wait and see on this one.

Lastly are the polygenic pattern morphs. There are a few now with more possibly coming:

Bullseye where the crescents in the ocelli are full and complete to the point where they connect at the bottom and form complete circles.

A second pattern morph is eclipse where there is no crescent at all:

One more recently produced is blush where the crescent is speckled and scattered through the ocelli:

There are various others, Jeff Clark has some "Clown phase" where the side ocelli are very large and distorted, unfortunately he has not been successful at producing more.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
20.28 BRB
14.18 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

lol, btw Dave, "Tawney" is an awesome looking animal, I usually do not like "anery" type of snakes, but this is Awesome when it comes to looks and is an ingredient for a "special Brazilian", I haven't grown tired of looking at that snake, hummm since I was staring for 10 minutes in Awe of my albino reticulatus, so you must just step back and just state every once in awhile lol
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

I am litle smarter than I look
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

to much credit Frank haha lol
Bob

///
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

I will have to start counseling for sure now Frank
Bob

p.s. I'll send the bills to ur a$$ lol

I don't think anyone has a handle on how these work genetically (if it is even a heritable trait), I suspect them to all be polygenic pattern morphs and work in similar fashion to the bullseye markings.

There are striped and tri-striped animals where the markings on the back form stripes down the spine instead of the circular patterns.

There also can be a lot of variance in what is considered normal brb's.. such as High Red animals, High Orange animals, extremely dark/melanistic animals, there are also differences in the color of the crescent markings ranging from light cream to yellow to dark orange.

and last, there are a few animals that are "calico", or have look normal except for small areas along their body is whited out, sometimes a single scale, others being larger clutsters of scales.

>>Hi Danielle,
>>
>>Welcome to the rainbow forum. I'm reposting my reply from the morph forum so the others won't be filling in the same info and can simply add to what I've already posted.
>>
>>
>>
>>There is a Rainbow Boa forum on KS where this might be better replied to but I can give you some info here. There are three known simple recessive morphs at this time along with several polygenic or line bred visual pattern anomalies.
>>
>>Simple recessive morphs are:
>>
>>Hypomelanistic. Two known lines and one (that I know of) possible new line. Mike Lockwood of tooscaley reptiles produced the first know hypomelanistic BRB from two siblings he bought from EBV. Nobody knew of the morph back then and in all probability the babies he bought each received their recessive gene from the same parent. Mike sold the first litter back to EBV and they used them to start the EBV line that is the most common at this time. Some examples:
>>
>>Hypo Dottie (Produced by Mike)
>>
>>Hypo Dumbo (also produced by Mike)
>>
>>Hypo Mickey (Produced by Exotics by nature from EBV stock)
>>
>>
>>There is also a Darren Bell line I have no details about. I believe they are from a different source and don't know if any work has been done to see if they are compatible.
>>
>>
>>The third line is from a gravid, wild caught female. She dropped her litter at the distributor in Florida. Don't know if he directly imported her or if he just ended up with her before dropping her litter. Either way, her litter of 8 babies contained a wicked looking striped hypo. Stripes like I've never seen on a BRB before. I liked the hypo so much I purchased the entire group, mom and 8 babies. I'll be raising the group for a couple of years and then will be working with them to determine who is het for what through breeding trials. I hope not only to prove out the hypo but also to recreate the striping.
>>
>>Some pics:
>>
>>New Hypo female "Genevieve"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>The second known recessive morph is Anerythristic. There are a couple of lines out there but I am only familiar with the one from Brian Sharp. I like his because they seem to retain their baby colors better including the white crescent. I have a couple of them and more on order from this years coming babies.
>>
>>Some pics:
>>
>>Anery from Brian Sharp "Tawney"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Last "known" morph is the elusive albino BRB. Purportedly Outback reptiles has one or more and if so is of course working towards producing more. Will have to wait and see on this one.
>>
>>
>>Lastly are the polygenic pattern morphs. There are a few now with more possibly coming:
>>
>>Bullseye where the crescents in the ocelli are full and complete to the point where they connect at the bottom and form complete circles.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>A second pattern morph is eclipse where there is no crescent at all:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>One more recently produced is blush where the crescent is speckled and scattered through the ocelli:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>There are various others, Jeff Clark has some "Clown phase" where the side ocelli are very large and distorted, unfortunately he has not been successful at producing more.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>20.28 BRB
>>14.18 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats
-----
photos.xtremecombatsports.com

As far as colour goes, I'm actually particularily interested in High Orange and High Red normals, and the genetic makeup of these animals.
I have the opportunity to acquire a High Orange female, (my little male may also be a HO animal, from what I was told of his background).

Am I to understand that the genetics governing these expressions are still being hashed out?

I'm a relative snake-genetics newbie, so pardon my inquistive nature.
-----
Danielle

Herps:
1.0 BRB
1.0 Amel Motley Corn
----------------------
Other critters:
1.0 Great Dane
1.0 Siamese
1 Senegal Parrot
1 Blue Fronted Amazon

Danielle,
The high orange and high red animals are certainly genetic traits, however, I don't think they have been proven to be monogenic. The evidence, at least that I have seen, tends to lean towards these traits being polygenic. Meaning they do not follow the Mendelian inheritance theories. They are genetically replicable, but the phenotype will vary on a bell curve. Polygenic traits are traits that are comprised of more then one gene to yeild the results.. which makes things pretty complicated..

Skin tones in humans, hair color, eye color etc are all polygenic traits. You mom may have blue eyes.. and your dad could have brown eyes.. yet you still may end up w/ green eyes. The same can be related to skin tones and hair color.

All in all though, if you breed to High Orange animals together, you will get atleast a sizable % of the offspring being high orange. (If all of the grandparents were high orange as well, the % goes up.. ).

Clear as mud?

>>As far as colour goes, I'm actually particularily interested in High Orange and High Red normals, and the genetic makeup of these animals.
>>I have the opportunity to acquire a High Orange female, (my little male may also be a HO animal, from what I was told of his background).
>>
>>Am I to understand that the genetics governing these expressions are still being hashed out?
>>
>>I'm a relative snake-genetics newbie, so pardon my inquistive nature.
>>-----
>>Danielle
>>
>>Herps:
>>1.0 BRB
>>1.0 Amel Motley Corn
>>----------------------
>>Other critters:
>>1.0 Great Dane
>>1.0 Siamese
>>1 Senegal Parrot
>>1 Blue Fronted Amazon
-----
photos.xtremecombatsports.com

The way I describe it is the babies will vary above and below the average color of the parents. The higher the average color of the parents, the higher the average color of the babies. Very easy with multiple generations to selectively breed for higher and higher color.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
20.28 BRB
14.18 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Absolutely!

Thank you, Tim.
-----
Danielle

Herps:
1.0 BRB
1.0 Amel Motley Corn
----------------------
Other critters:
1.0 Great Dane
1.0 Siamese
1 Senegal Parrot
1 Blue Fronted Amazon