Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i seen some pics of a suposed ball crossed with a burm!they had a pair of balls housed with a pair of burms and got poss. hybrids. it may be true or not but the pics looked poss.. they said the ball breed the albino burm female.crazy
i would call it the king kong ball if i made it. i have lots of ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????'ss if its for real.
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ball pythons
pastel,het&PH albino,het&PH hypo,PH pieds,PH clown,and norms!!
borneo ST,black,& red blood pythons
1.2 black SSTP
2.1 borneo STP
1.2 red bloods
garter snake morphs easterns/checkereds
w.hognose morphs
1.1 super kids Memfis Lance and Linda May(co-dom)

Interesting. Without knowing more they look "legit" to me. Obviously, the confusing issue is the albino offspring. It would have to be an example of spontaneous albinism. In an organism that must have all kinds of chromosomal abnormalities, I guess that's not too far fetched. It will be interesting to see if A) they are in fact legit (I have several reasons tho think they may in fact be). B) If the survice. and C) if they are fertile. Like I said, definitely interesting...

There is a simple reason why there are albinos in the litter... multiple paternity. This is a common mating system in snakes. Females, being polyandrous (i.e. mating with multiple males who each sire offspring in the litter) enhance genetic diversity in the offspring this way.
Therefore, the albinos are regular burms and there are a few burm x ball pythons.

Warren
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Dr Warren Booth
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology
3309 Gardner Hall
Raleigh, NC 27695-7613

Clearly abberant. They did not look like typical albino burms. I'm still leaning toward the explanation that these babies are so wacked out chromosomally that this may be spontaneous. I'm also guessing there was a huge egg mortality. If you think about it, burms can lay 50 eggs. We're seeing 4 or 5 babies. I think I'm chalking this one up to an experiment gone bad.

Go to the breeders web site and you will see the albino offspring are identical to the parent albino burms. The albinos look like a morph, maybe labyrinth. I am not into the burm morphs so could not be sure.
However, the likelihood that a number of individuals within a litter would spontaneously mutate at the locus coding for the colour gene is virtually impossible. This litter is a clear example of multiple paternity. If the owner wants to send me shed skins of all the offspring and the parents I would be happy to carry out the paternity analysis required to prove this. However, looking a the pictures of the burm parents, it is clear to see which are hybrids and which not.

Warren
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Dr Warren Booth
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology
3309 Gardner Hall
Raleigh, NC 27695-7613

I'm sorry if I missed it somewhere, but where are the pics, or link? And who is the breeder? It says to go to the breeders website, but I never read who the breeder is....

Thanks
Jason

www.schlangenfrank.de

There is simply no way the albinos are hybrids. They are pure burmese.

Warren
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Dr Warren Booth
North Carolina State University
Department of Entomology
3309 Gardner Hall
Raleigh, NC 27695-7613

The pics look legitimate to me.
Maybe the breeder bred a Ball to one of those Dwarf Burmese??

Regardless, this is one herper who doesn't see the point of hybrids.
Any hybrids, not just Ball hybrids.

Until EVERY Ball trait has been crossed with EVERY Ball trait WHY muddy the waters with hybrids??

I don't think it's much of a stretch for someone to breed a Ball hybrid back to a Ball and sell the different looking 3/4 Ball offspring as a new morph or whatever.

Sure, the breeder would destroy his/her reputation. But, not before making some money. Has any Ball breeder sacrificed ethics/reputation for the sake of profits?? I'm sure some folks could offer up examples of precedence.....

Hybrids......blah....

BB
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"Have you hugged your drummer today?" --- Me

Where are these pictures? And does anyone know anymore details on the breeding?
Kim

email me and I'll send them
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Tosha
JET Pythons

This will be much easier.....

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Tosha
JET Pythons

The point of Hybridization on a scientific stand point is taxonomical to help determine the deeper relations between different species. Hybridization has destroyed many of that previous "laws" of biology.

Morph breeding doesn't do this. In fact the arguement can be made that why breed morphs, that's only for personal enjoyment.

I don't see a problem with Morphs, Hybrids, or pure wild type of any animals. As long as they are healthy and well cared for, what does it matter.
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http://www.GilbertBoas.com/

the BP world, just MENTION hybrids in the African Cichlid community and the feelings expressed in the snake forums will be a mere fart compared to those on the Cichlid forums.

Where did you see these pics please post the link. Thanks
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Damian Macioce
www.strongholdreptiles.com

i think,there was a link for anouther site were the pics are but it's gone now.
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Vince Pramuk

http://gallery.pethobbyist.com/data/88505Schlupf_04_05_07_005-med.jpg
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when life hands you lemons, make super lemons, bumblebees, etc...

There are a couple of realling interesting ones, but how in the world where there albinos? The Albinos look fairly normal...like normal Burms????

Really strange, Could it just be that a few of the babies from a Normal BurmxBurm pairing came out with "Ball python" looking abberant pattern??
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Executive Reptiles
Amanda Kingsbury & David Kendrick
www.executivereptiles.com

Don't rule out the fact that they might be Jungle Burms. Close up pictures are probably the answer to everyones question, but then again they might create more questions than answers?

I see no problems with Hybrids. As long as the breeder is upfront with the general public. I am sure some like Hybrids and some do not. But that is like every other snake genus out there. As long as the animal is taken care of and the buyer knows what it is purchasing. To each his own.

Those pictures have been bugging me...they didn't look burmese or python to me... more like a blood python or ball python/blood python cross... super balls?

I just don't think the burmese and ball pythons are similar enough genetically to produce viable offspring....it would be like...breeding a boa constrictor to a rainbow boa.

and how close are ball and blood pythons to each other? Or even better the woma and ball python, now if that can be done, then any python hybrid can be done and it was done by NERD so I don't discount the ball x burm hybrid one bit.
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Josh & Krysty Hutto
J&K Reptiles

Various Ball Pythons:::

1.0 striped vanilla
1.0 spider
1.2 Citrus Ghost and hets
1.2 Albino and hets
2.3 het Pied
0.6 50% poss het pied
1.1 Pastel (male has additional gene going on with him)
a bunch of normal female breeders
a bunch of normal female holdbacks and several rescued normal males

0.1 columbian boa, she's a feeding monster, controls my
over production of rats, lol
0.1 brazilian rainbow boa, another rat eating monster
1.1 corns

a BAD dog is MADE not bred, support the American Pit Bull Terrier as the greatest breed of dogs on Earth!!!!!

"and how close are ball and blood pythons to each other? Or even better the woma and ball python, now if that can be done, then any python hybrid can be done and it was done by NERD so I don't discount the ball x burm hybrid one bit"

Woma X Ball is a lot more plausible than this breeding, even though I think these offspring truly are what the guy is saying.

Think about it this way, the Woma(aspidites) is a primordial python, therefore it makes sense that there are commonalities genotypically between the two, since one was the precursor to the other.

What I'd be interested to see, is how a breeding between a Rock Python (very genetically similar to burmese) X Ball would turn out. I'd put my money on the fact that you would get a much higher yield of progeny, as well as the young would be much more likely to be viable/fertile.

Dan

Who did this? Are there more pics?

The Ball X Blood has allready been done called Super Balls. Roussi Reptiles.

Woma X Ball Has been done as well. Woma Ball. NERD.