Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Pardon me for asking but I am trying to figure out the attraction for emoryi. Every time I see a post I say oh no not again. They all look the same to me a generic snake plain wrap. I decided to collect a pair in hopes of understanding the attraction. I open the shoe box their in and they are there, sitting there plain brown snake. I have the feeling that somehow a feeling will come over me and I will reach enlightenment but…nothing. I am reaching out trying to understand what to do next. Is it love at first sight or an acquired taste? This seems to be a tight knit group of people but somehow I haven’t reached enlightenment. I am not giving up, don’t get me wrong I like all snakes there must be something to this. Let me put it into perspective for you there is no following for ring neck snakes, night snakes or worm snakes and you may be thinking how dare him lower this regal reptile into those ranks. It is almost like a sacred group and you have to be in the know. You may choose to ignore this post or worse ridicule me. All I am asking is for advise, enlightenment but until then I will open that sacred shoe box and stare into the abyss wondering why?
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

The amel Emoryi are real eye candy and the WT's are classics like a patternless Black Rat.

Yes a mel is nice to look at. I pondered my query all night long into the waking hours . I reflected on myself. Why do I even keep snakes? What makes some more special to me? Am I a color freak? Any response to my query would be valid one. Then it hit me, it has nothing to do with color, money or anything else. If I could find room for emoryi I will indeed reach enlightenment. My eyes will be opened. It is neither love at first sight nor an acquired taste it is what it is. But yes
A-mel is eye candy!
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

You have reached enlightenment, grasshopper! I think maybe some people don't have many other rat snakes nearby, (me) and they have a fair disposition once they settle. No feeding issues, hardy, fast growers, what's not to like?
Todd Hughes

When I first started catching wild snakes, as a kid in south Texas, back in the late 70's, Pantherophis/Elaphe emoryi meahllmorum (thornscrub/southwestern/southern great plains rats) were, and still are, the snake that I caught most often. Not colorful, but as Todd said, easy to keep and feed and fairly calm - "what's not to like"? I also thought that many other snakes were more interesting because of bright colors, but as the years went by, I became more and more interested in meahllmorum, not just as a pet, but as an interesting animal to study. Imo, this is the most adaptable and successful lampropeltine in South
Texas, and even though not colorful, it has quite a lot of variety in pattern and color, within the boundaries of shades of gray, brown and tan. I still like lots of colorful snakes, but color is not always what draws me to an animal.

-Toby Brock

and green! Anyone seen any green Crotalus v. viridis, like in New Mexico at high altitudes? They sometimes have a green tint, isn't that what viridis means? Some of the P.g.gutatta remind me of those viridis, and some of these meahlly's look kinda like that. Big clutches, big eggs, big babies, ehat's not to like?
Todd Hughes

Yeah, and muted grayish green. For greens in emoryi, I like those West Texas intergrades. I've seen pics of those green rattlers, and they are cool looking. Speaking of big eggs and clutches, my big girl is weighing in at 1158 grams, currently, and is just beginning to look somewhat swollen. In her last breeding, she had a clutch of 14 large eggs, all of which hatched out big, feisty babies.

-Toby

You got me, 'hunter. I tried keeping one for awhile (very attractive one, as far as Emory's rats go), mostly for educational talks, but wound up not really paying attention to it. Just like a brown corn. Just my preference. So sue me.
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>>"Life without risk is to merely exist."
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V.P.
Austin Herp. Soc.

I have to agree with you. I really don't see the attraction. I just see a less colorful corn snake when I look at them.

Sorry about the double post. Did not think the first one went through.

I have to agree with you there. I have never seen the appeal. Look just like less colorful corn snakes to me. Then again I never understood why anyone would keep garter snakes either!

>>Pardon me for asking but I am trying to figure out the attraction for emoryi. Every time I see a post I say oh no not again. They all look the same to me a generic snake plain wrap. I decided to collect a pair in hopes of understanding the attraction. I open the shoe box their in and they are there, sitting there plain brown snake. I have the feeling that somehow a feeling will come over me and I will reach enlightenment but…nothing. I am reaching out trying to understand what to do next. Is it love at first sight or an acquired taste? This seems to be a tight knit group of people but somehow I haven’t reached enlightenment. I am not giving up, don’t get me wrong I like all snakes there must be something to this. Let me put it into perspective for you there is no following for ring neck snakes, night snakes or worm snakes and you may be thinking how dare him lower this regal reptile into those ranks. It is almost like a sacred group and you have to be in the know. You may choose to ignore this post or worse ridicule me. All I am asking is for advise, enlightenment but until then I will open that sacred shoe box and stare into the abyss wondering why?
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>>"Life without risk is to merely exist."

actually I kind of felt that way myself......before i saw one in person.
I don't know about the ones you have seen but the ones I have seen, especially mine....lol, have a nice sheen and almost sparkle as you turn them in the light. Two of mine also look almost like Indian beedwork.
I really find them quite striking. I think they are more variable then they may appear at first. I have five and they all have a distinct look
So, maybe it is an acquired taste or maybe it is just the specimen itself.
But there are some things that will just never appeal to us.
Everyone always gets all ga ga over bloodreds, I just don't really care for them.
Or how about leucistic (spelling) Texas and Black rats...ugh, can't stand them...Lot of people love them.
matter of taste...lol
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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Jimmy,

I saw a herp book that described Bairds as dull looking gray striped snakes, but as those of us that have them know, that just isn't so.

Back on topic, with Emoryi, what is not to like? When you contrast them to a Corn, you see the power of natural selection, even if you don't know the exact forces that brought about the changes.

I will say you have all been understanding. I didn't get slammed once! Maybe it is more than just the snake? Who knows maybe I will become a regular.

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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

If one can love on a big red Masticophis, then it will be easy! Just hold it close and look into its' eyes, the Force will guide you........
Todd Hughes

>>Jimmy,
>>
>>I saw a herp book that described Bairds as dull looking gray striped snakes, but as those of us that have them know, that just isn't so.
>>
>>Back on topic, with Emoryi, what is not to like? When you contrast them to a Corn, you see the power of natural selection, even if you don't know the exact forces that brought about the changes.
>>
>>

I was going to bring up bairdis also.
That weren't "that" popular not too long ago.
I can also remember reading about bairdis as being dull grey snakes. ha wrong...lol

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

I find Bairds a very attractive snake. I have NEVER found one and I do not own one but could make the transition with ease in the case of Bairds especially the Mexican Sub-species. Here is one of my favorites.

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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

You'll probably never figure it out, because you have the attitude of just looking at "emoryi", and not the other subspecies; you're looking at the color/pattern first, instead of looking at the snake and what it represents; you're looking to be entertained, instead of studying the animal and trying to find out what makes it tick and what good characteristics it has.

I admit, I'm a ratsnake lover, but I like all herps in the field. If you're not a field herper, this next statement will probably be meaningless. Emory's ratsnake is a great animal to study in the wild. It has a huge range, larger than the corn snake, I believe. There's tremendous variation over its vast range, lots more than in corn snakes. The attraction to corn snakes is the mutations mainly and eventually Emory's will have those too. I like Emory's because I want to study them in the field, because not everyone has one, like they do corns, and because I want to be the one to develop some of the mutations and localities. What's not to like?

I've kept many, many species of ratsnakes. I don't want a huge collection anymore. At one point I stopped and asked myself, what do I want to keep, if I have to have a small collection? My answer was, it has to be smallish and it has to be a good pet. It also has to have potential for development, endless hours of observations to understand it and be able to work with it. It has to be very hardy, be able to reproduce easily, and handle well. It should be something I can refine and make available for other keepers to enjoy. It should be a snake I can look for in the field in many different areas. I don't want to buy something that has already been created by someone else and been bred for a hundred generations. What's not to like about Emory's?

Ya know, I say the same thing a lot myself, "Oh, no, not another black rat, not another Baird's, not another corn snake, not another suboc." It's not that I don't like these snakes, but they're not the ones I work with and I get tired of seeing the same basic posts again and again. I want to see posts about the snakes I keep. But, then again, I can see the purpose in those posts. Lots of folks like those snakes and they have the right to post about them, as often as they want. I can choose to ignore those posts, which I do sometimes. You can ignore my posts too, if you want. But some of us just really like Emory's rats, or some of the Emory's rats, and it's our right to pursue the species that makes us happy.

I remember the old days, and I used to see lots of Emory's ratsnakes, almost always from Kansas, and I usually said to myself, "Man, they are plain. Who would want to keep those? Plus, there's no market. How could you sell them?" Today, it's a different story. The Emory's are a challenge. Everything about them is exciting and challenging, like their taxonomy, where the localities will come from, the next mutation, etc. This species has lots of potential. I think they make a great pet snake and offer hours, days, years, of entertainment, and believe me, they're not all from Kansas. To each his own I guess.

PS: Want to know more about Emory's ratsnakes? Join my "Ratsnake Haven" group at Yahoo. You can find lots of info there and lots of photos.

Cheers....Terry

>>Pardon me for asking but I am trying to figure out the attraction for emoryi. Every time I see a post I say oh no not again. They all look the same to me a generic snake plain wrap. I decided to collect a pair in hopes of understanding the attraction. I open the shoe box their in and they are there, sitting there plain brown snake. I have the feeling that somehow a feeling will come over me and I will reach enlightenment but…nothing. I am reaching out trying to understand what to do next. Is it love at first sight or an acquired taste? This seems to be a tight knit group of people but somehow I haven’t reached enlightenment. I am not giving up, don’t get me wrong I like all snakes there must be something to this. Let me put it into perspective for you there is no following for ring neck snakes, night snakes or worm snakes and you may be thinking how dare him lower this regal reptile into those ranks. It is almost like a sacred group and you have to be in the know. You may choose to ignore this post or worse ridicule me. All I am asking is for advise, enlightenment but until then I will open that sacred shoe box and stare into the abyss wondering why?
>>-----
>>"Life without risk is to merely exist."

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Ratsnake Haven...researching ratsnakes since 1988

Ratsnake Haven Group...an information providing list site.

I think they're pretty enough, it's a subtle beauty though. Interesting side note, I just caught my first great plains rat not too long ago in Southern Missouri, and damned if that thing didn't bite the tar out of me. Definately caught me by suprise, the captive bred ones I've seen and handled have all been very docile.

Kevin

Kevin. Do you have any photos of that snake? I'm trying to find MO specimens to study. Can you say what county it was from? Thanks...

Terry

>>I think they're pretty enough, it's a subtle beauty though. Interesting side note, I just caught my first great plains rat not too long ago in Southern Missouri, and damned if that thing didn't bite the tar out of me. Definately caught me by suprise, the captive bred ones I've seen and handled have all been very docile.
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>>Kevin

I have a photo somewhere, I'll post it on here later. This snake was a behemoth as well, over four feet long. It was found on a glade around Camden County.

Kevin

I would be interested to know where about you found it also. I am from southern MO and have never seen any. I am in the sw part. Jasper county.
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.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches"
.1 MO Locale Black Ratsnake "Molly" (Flogging Molly)

"Have you ever tried simply turning off the T.V., sitting down with your kids... and hitting them?"

I guess it's not exactly Southern Missouri, but getting close, definately ozark territory.

Just out of curiosity, for those of you in Southern Missouri, do you ever turn up eastern coachwhips in that neck of the woods? A herping buddy of mine and I have hit glade after glade all over south-central and southern Missouri this spring, hoping to turn up one, and we have yet to even see a hint of one. Possible exchange of information?

Kevin

Kevin, that's close enough for me, to get the subspecies status, etc. I'm mostly interested in its taxonomy. Look forward to the photo.

I'm not from MO, btw, rather n. MI. I will be heading down that way in June, however. You're more than welcome to email me or join my Yahoo group, and we can talk more.

Thanks...Terry

>>I guess it's not exactly Southern Missouri, but getting close, definately ozark territory.
>>
>>Just out of curiosity, for those of you in Southern Missouri, do you ever turn up eastern coachwhips in that neck of the woods? A herping buddy of mine and I have hit glade after glade all over south-central and southern Missouri this spring, hoping to turn up one, and we have yet to even see a hint of one. Possible exchange of information?
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>>Kevin

I field herp on a daily bases in most cases and like you I do research. My specialty is racers tropical and local. I am glad you posted it shows the depth of interest in the species I hate to admit it but I did not think the emoryi following was a serious one, so for that I am pleased. I will look for a mate for my dotted specimen and breed them for kicks, who knows I might get hooked?

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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Nice clutch. Are those yellow-bellied racers? We have blue racers here in MI. I still need to see one this year, as they aren't in my area.

PS: Racer eggs are calcified (kinda bumpy), correct?

>>I field herp on a daily bases in most cases and like you I do research. My specialty is racers tropical and local. I am glad you posted it shows the depth of interest in the species I hate to admit it but I did not think the emoryi following was a serious one, so for that I am pleased. I will look for a mate for my dotted specimen and breed them for kicks, who knows I might get hooked?
>>
>>
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>>"Life without risk is to merely exist."

They are offspring from this.

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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Oh! Red phase coachwhip? Interesting. Don't know that I've heard of anyone producing those before. Hope you're learning some good stuff about them.

TC

>>They are offspring from this.
>>
>>
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>>"Life without risk is to merely exist."

I am the only breeder of these in the United States. I have been breeding them since 1997. They are a tough snake to reproduce. I have successfully reprodiced them 8 years running and the offspring you are looking at are F2 generation.
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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Congrats! You must know quite a lot about these guys.

TC

Here is a snake I hatched in 1997. As you can see it has become part of our family. They are the most intelligent snake I have ever worked with and not the notorious demon portrayed in books.

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"Life without risk is to merely exist."

Hey, those are great pics. Love seeing kids interacting with snakes and other herps. Bet you're a proud daddy.

TC