Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Yesterday was a really exciting day for us.
What a sight to see. Baby burms coming out of the egg!

All 22 eggs hatched, they are half dwarf double het for albino and granite babies.

They are the offspring of a dwarf burmese bred to an albino granite female.

They seem to have a similiar pattern to the dwarf burms, so it will be interesting to see how much of a reduction in size will be accomplished since they are half dwarfs. We are hoping they will only get to around 10 feet in length.

-----
Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales

Here are some more pictures. The parents and the babies coming out of the eggs.

-----
Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales

Do you happen to have the average lengths and weights of these young? I would be interested as it could give a rough idea on the influence of the dwarf genetics when compared with the stats for normal burmese neonates. I have plenty of that I could share with you. Thanks,

Kelly

Kelly,

The average length is right at 18 inches and 90 grams.
We know that 18 inches would be on the low end of the range for a normal sized baby burm.

We spoke with Bebo this evening and his thoughts are that the babies tend to follow the size of the female. For example, if the mother is a normal sized burm, the eggs and neonates would be bigger in size and vice versa for a dwarf female. The sizes would tend to even out in the end. This is what Bebo found to be true with the dwarf retics.

If you have further information you can share, it would be greatly appreciated.
-----
Randy and Michelle
Art In Scales
(719) 439-4199

18 inches would be below the low end for normal burmese in my opinion. Out of several dozen clutches I produced in the 80's and early 90's, the average length was 23.75 inches, with the smallest hatchling at 21 inches. Average weight for all clutches was 136 grams, with the smallest at 118 grams. Thanks,

Kelly

and pure dwarf.. I have all the data somewhere, but the average was.

around 50-60 grams
15"

eggs 3-3.5" long

clutch size was from 8-21 eggs.

pic, the size difference is stagering to say the least, do you have a female dwarf, If so you have any clutches?
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

We have 2.3 dwarfs. We thought one of the females was ready this year, but neither she nor the male wanted anything to do with each other. The male was imported as an adult and the female is about three years old. Maybe next year.

Thats old enough.. They do seem to take longer.. They take at least 3 years to breed. You have to also remember, dwarf burmese breed at a different time of the year than normals. They breed much earlier in the year. They are having eggs when normals are starting to breed.

Males need to be at least 3.5' and females at least 4.5'

They are for sure a different python, not the same as the regular burmese..

Beau

....
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

here ya go.. the average from the cklutches of pure dwarf. Taken just after laying.

Average egg dimension: Weight: 121.3364 Grams/ Length inches: 3-3/8 “, length millimetre: 86.72727273, Inches Of Width: 1-15/16”, width millimetre: 49.54545455

And babies were between 50 and 60 grams and 14-16"

You can see just how small they are. Its next to a new ahtch baby ball.

Also, Ive said before. They are the only python I know of that "plays dead" like a hognose snake. Its very odd and only lasts up to a few weeks after hatching and then they stop doing it.

Thanks, The "playing dead" may have developed behaviorally because they are subjected to predation on the island they are found. Protection mechanism I have never heard of in Pythons and or Boas, very interesting. Captive hognose's a lot of time stop performing as fasts as these guys have, has anyone else experienced this from their Dwarf neonates??
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

it was very interesting.. I dont know of any boas or pythons that do this either. I thought I killed the first baby to hatch, it was that real. No breathing, limp as a wet noodle. Insane. I dont think the babies from dwarf to normal do it. But everyone of the pure dwarf babies did it for like i said up to around a week to 2 weeks.

Only other person to captive produce pure dwarfs is in the UK. Not sure if they saw this or not..

Wish I would have video taped it. But its only a matter of time before others reproduce pure dwarfs.. They have only been in captivity since 2003 and the first c.b. females are just now being big enough to breed. The import females are very hard to get to breed.

Anyway, hope someone else can document this on tape soon...

and yes for sure a defensive thing they have developed due to predation on gthe island. AN interesting note. Burmese pythons are very rare in indonesia. They almost dont exist, yet these dwarfs come from an island thats very far away from mainland asia where burmese come from. Close to sulawesi (celebes. So they evolved over a very long time, unlike the dwarf retics.

also interesting, wild dwarf burmese are the meanest snake ive ever seen. They play dead as babies, the are very mean as adults and they burrow more than a normal, all tells me that them being small, they must have several animals that eat them in the wild..

Hey guys.. I am really glad to see your warfs are paying off.... As you know I Love the Dwarf Morph game and cant wait to see the Gems as visual morphs... Dwarf granites especially are going to be crazy.. Already the Dwarf pattern is smaller and tighter should be awesome as a granite... albino and of course the dwarf Albino granite should be a real sight.... Keep up the good work and Congratulations.
P.S. As the EU has classifies the Dwarrfs asd a seperate Sub Spp... It should be US soon to follow... Could make them not fall into same large constrictor law bans......
Again Congrats.
-----
Michael Cole
Ballroom Pythons South
863-439-3015
WWW.BallroomPythonsSouth.com

I must be getting old. I always get such a good laugh (not being sarcastic here) when I see the new names that come out from our genetically engineered designer snakes:

half dwarf double het for albino and granite....sounds like a Starbucks drink!

Whatever happened to the good 'ol days of:
Normal burm

Someday I'll get caught up....cute snake though.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center

>>Yesterday was a really exciting day for us.
>>What a sight to see. Baby burms coming out of the egg!
>>
>>All 22 eggs hatched, they are half dwarf double het for albino and granite babies.
>>
>>They are the offspring of a dwarf burmese bred to an albino granite female.
>>
>>They seem to have a similiar pattern to the dwarf burms, so it will be interesting to see how much of a reduction in size will be accomplished since they are half dwarfs. We are hoping they will only get to around 10 feet in length.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>-----
>>Randy and Michelle
>>Art In Scales
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

time to outbreed them to some "Cat eaters" NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

(evil grin)

once again congrats and keep us posted on their growth rates, interesting thing is when further outbred to get "anomalies", albinos, etc...You can then bred them back to dwarfs and refine the larger size, would take quite A few years to do it, but if you stick to it, you could get all those genes in a dwarf burmese, one question I have. Do these dwarfs take longer to reach sexual maturity? The big gene should make some difference in a lot of ways to these hatchlings. I mean the pure dwarfs sexual maturation?
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

While it would be a longer wait to get morphs on the smaller scale, you should at least breed some of those back to a pure dwarf. Yes you's be dealing with poss hets, but I think it will pay off in the end.

To be honest the patterns don't seem that radical, especially since het granites seem to have a different pattern from normals anyway.
-----
http://www.GilbertBoas.com/

Darn it! I'm trying to hold onto my old school big burms are better philosophy. But I may have to get into those at some point.

That's a cute little one you've got there!

Major Congrats!!!! I love the dwarf burms. I have 1.2 right now.
Keep up the good work and definetely keep us all updated.
Congratulations!!
Justin