Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My husband and I are outting the final touches on our outdoor enclosure for our boxies since relocating fron FL to SC this winter.

We went to Walmart and bought 80 bags of topsoil...got it home added it to our enclosure and it rained last night, when we went out this morning it appears that alot of this "top soil" is clay. There are clay balls everywhere which we have raked and taken out but being that it rained last night the "soil" is very firm and stuck together.

Anyone ever run into this problem. Will the turts be able to dig down?

Any suggestins???

Thanks
Melinda

P.S. We will be checking responses frequently as we are hoping to wrap this up today and get them out!!!

Can you tell me about your turtle pen?
For example:
What was the existing soil like?
You brought in a lot of top soil...how big is the pen?
Are you planning on keeping your turtles outside year round?

If you had 'hard pan' clay to begin with, then the best way to loosen it up is by tilling in organic matter (compost). In a big pen, you wouldn't necessarily need to amend ALL of the soil. In fact, a little variety would be desirable. If you plan on keeping your turtles outside year round, then they would need a suitable place to hibernate...with a substrate even looser than topsoil (think fluffy).

I've never encountered that problem. What's the soil like where you came from? Try to duplicate that.
When I first took in Shell E & started getting the first outdoor pen ready for her people suggested I use cypress mulch in the pen for her.
It didn't work, I realized the only thing these turtles want for substrate is sand because sand is the natural substrate of the land here. I put the mulch in but she avoided it like the plague, I took it out, she burrowed into the sand the way she wanted to.
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PHRatz

Ah yes, you've fallen into the "Carolina topsoil trap". They collect clay from construction sites, mix in shredded bark and wood(also from construction sites), and call it topsoil. Most dirt farms sell a product called "garden mix", "planting mix", or something of that nature. This is usually better quality, but they charge significantly more for it. You just have to make sure that it doesn't have anything harmful added.

I keep my turtles on red clay. Like Steph mentioned, I've enriched the soil with orgnanic matter for years, so it is now much easier to work with. My turtles have never minded clay, but you have to make certain that you provide them with piles of leaves/pine straw, logs, dense plants, etc. for them to hide in and around to escape from the Southern heat.

Yup, buyer beware.

Most bagged 'topsoil' is just a haphazard mix of dirt and other stuff. Always check for additives, too, even if the label says 'organic', because there can be added granular fertilizer in there.

Unless you live in the city, check the yellow pages for dairy farms or riding schools/stables and call around to see if any of them have composted manure...they always have the un-composted stuff around and will typically give it away, but you want to make sure you compost it first before using it.

The best free source or organic matter/mulch is something that many people go to great lengths to get rid of every autumn: fallen leaves.

Wanted to thak all of you who posted in response to our questions yesterday! Lots of good ideas, we are just not used to this "clay" type of soil here...but we always use leaves etc...added to the enclosure so who knows after a few season of leaves breaking down hopefully we will get the achieved goal.

Hubby called me at work today as he is planting the enclosure which is situated at the bottom of a hill in out yard, and guess what??? To add insult to injury we now have flooding issues as well...it just keeps getting better...we have just spent about 1k on this turtle enclosure and flooding will now mean bringing them in in the winter, which is not a problem.

But what to do on a sunny day when you get a 20 minute Southern downpour?? We are afraid the enclosure will fill up...any suggestions???

I guess we may have to look at trying to make some sort of french drain...

Thanks
Melina

"I guess we may have to look at trying to make some sort of french drain..."

Bingo! They should change the name and call it a "Carolina drain"!

With some creativity and a basic knowledge of hydrology, you can create a temporary pool of water within the enclosure that the turtles will absolutely LOVE. The added bonus is that you won't have to clean it often if it only fills during heavy rains. During the hottest part of the year, expect virtually nightly thunderstorms.

Kensopher, do you live in either of the Carolinas?? If so which one??

Have you experienced this at all. Due to the makeup of our yard it sits on a hill and slopes a bit downward. Since the 2 male boxies don't get along that well they have to be separated and due to the logisitcs of the sun, one side of this enclosure sits on the hill and the other side is the bottom half of the hill, hence we have only seen flooding in the bottom section.

I think the most we saw in one corner of the enclosure was about 4-6' of water that stayed for a couple of days (2-3) before it disapated. Is that ok? What if that boxie was in that area at night when it started to downpour and the area filled up with water? Would the animal drowned or move to another area?

We are extremely concerned with this as it seems we never have an easy time with these turtles. It's a very long story...but they 'cause us angst, up until we go to feed them one morning and see those faces looking up at us waiting for breakfast at their food slates and then we know that all the angst was very much worth it. They are truly remarkable animals...we are lucky to have them.

Thanks
Melinda

P.S. Anyone know how I can post some pics of the new enclosure? I did not see an option to add attachments to my reply? Thanks

I can't say exactly, but I do live in the Carolinas.

I think that the turtles would not only handle, but may appreciate, the standing water of that depth and scope. They will simply move to higher ground if they're caught under...unless they're severely weakened by cold, disease, or injury. Under no circumstances would I personally brumate them in an area that has standing water unless they could choose a spot that is entirely dry and much higher.

Seriously, though, with a shovel and some smooth stones you could create a "dry stream bed" that will fill up with rain, and then almost immediately empty. It's pretty easy, and for the purchase price of the rocks most garden centers would be willing to give you pointers. Or, you can just turn the area into a shallow garden pond using a PVC pond liner. The turtles would LOVE that! I wouldn't worry too much as long as you're providing your turtles with escape from the flood.

You could use the situation to your advantage and create a 'rain garden' (see link), planting it with marginal or even bog plants: your turtles might enjoy a damp or even muddy place where they could keep cool in the heat of the summer.
I had a small leak in my pond one summer, and ended up with a mud wallow nearby: a few of my turtles stayed in the mud for days on end.
Link

My turtles are on natural earth, which here is Florida dirt/sand. They don't dig into it. I have a big pile made of 1/3 garden soil (it's nice high-quality soil, though, rich and black) 1/3 fine peat, and 1/3 pine needles, leaves, pulled up dry weeds. It started out in layers as a hibernaculum last fall, but has since been spread out and re-piled and mixed a lot. They both burrow into the pile at night, poke their heads out in the morning, and climb to the top and bask. I'd say it's about two x two feet. 18" high.

Nanci
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OK, so I have read all your wonderful replies and we have gotten the enclosure to the point of having this nasty clay soil in and we have planted a lot of plants so there is alot of shade, and made hide boxes for them, but the problem seems to be that this soil of clay seems to be very hard almost cement like...we are wondering if anyone has knowledge of whether they will be able to dig down into this clay??? As we all knwo they regulate their own body temps by sunning, getting inot soil to cool off etc...we are afraid if they can't make scrapes in the clay they may overheat in the summer.
They have only been out for about 4 days and are slowly getting used to the enclosure...but we are concerned about the above...Should we add "top soil" that is like real top soil that they can dig inot if needed???
Any suggestions yet again are very helpful.

Thanks in Advance
Melinda

P.S. How do I post pictures???