Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here's a king I bought from a local pet shop. They said he was a Thayeri, but he looks more like a Ruthveni to me. Anyone know for sure? Whatever he is, he's got the best personality of any snake I've ever owned. Totally calm, even in blue, shed and feeding. He even seems to like being handled and climbs right up to my hand when I open his cage. He's a little thin in the picks, but putting on weight now.

To me it looks like it could be a cross...

~ Mike

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TomsSnakes.com

Looks more like a thayeri.

Kerby...
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Lonesome Valley Reptiles
www.lonesomevalleyreptiles.com
Specializing In California Kingsnakes

I say L. m. thayeri.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

www.crimsonking.funtigo.com

It does look like a thayeri but if you produce enough of these (which I have) I would tend to say you've got a cross. The thayeri X ruthveni cross is pretty popular especially for guys trying to introduce the albino gene into their program. The important thing is that you are happy w/ the snake and will give it a good home.

Now if you decide to breed it I would recommend either trying to trace down the original breeder to get better background info or label it as cross. There are several abnormalities in that snakes pattern that I have not seen in 7 years of breeding what I believe clean lines of thayeri.

Good luck with your snake.
Russ

like Russ said it has a hint of a cross look. Since there are probably more Thayeri mixes out there being sold as Thayeri than there are pure Thayeri for sale it is really hard to say just from the pictures. Unless breeding, consider it a Thayeri and enjoy, either way it's a nice snake.
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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

Here's some pics of Milksnake Phase (MSP) Thayeri.

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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

Wow.

Those are pretty outrageous.

Definitely the nicest milk snake phases I've ever seen.

>>Wow.
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>>Those are pretty outrageous.
>>
>>Definitely the nicest milk snake phases I've ever seen.

Thanks Zack!
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Rick
Never Enough
Reptiles

Well,.... "thayeri", known as the "Nuevo Leon" kingsnake, and also commonly called the "Variable Kingsnake" is just that....
extremely variable!, and the same clutch can produce a wide assortment of different looking offspring!.....even the same parents can have totally different looking siblings from year to year...leonis phase, milksnake phase,and any combination in between,.....even solid black(melanistic).

I think the majority of your snakes lineage is "thayeri", but like some of the others already stated, it's quite possible that it has some gene-flow from another source. Most "pure" thayeri that I'm aware of from many years ago, tend to have a more "mottled" look to their head, as well as the light temporal band being strangely shaped, or many times being broken.

I also tend to agree with the fact that many are not a "pure"
representation, as they were some years ago. They have certainly had their share of "mixing" in recent years, along with many other species of snakes as well!

here are pics of two typical unrelated examples of the
"milksnake" phase thayeri from back around '95 when there was no doubt what they were!

In any case, that's my honest opinion as far as what you have.

I'm always bothered by the fact that you can't really tell what you have anymore when it comes to certain species/subspecies with 100% certainty!!......this practice is becoming all too common, and gets nothing but worse every single year.

best regards, ~Doug

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"Better to be silent and thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove any doubt!"

Tend to agree to be a mix. Regardles he's a cool snake, enjoy him!

Oh yeah, that's my buckskin thayeri when he was in the blue. Just killing time!