Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have 2 ponds in my backyard, 1 which held approximately 300 gallons and was home to 3 young blandings turtles, the other holding 2-3,000 gallons and held approximately 30 turtles. I live in Fort Worth Texas and all but the blandings and a few red foot tortoises from Central America and wood turtles from South America are indigenous to the area. I have lost 2 of the 3 blandings, 3 cooters, 3 red eared sliders, 1 soft shell and 1 red foot in the past 2 weeks. We have had a lot of rain and after I found 5 dead turtles in 2 days i drained the ponds and put in all new water. There was a bit more rain over the next few days but there were no casualties for the next few days, but then 4 more showed up dead in the next couple of days. There has been no spraying for insects in the area of which I am aware. Some of the turtles did show a malaise 2-3 days prior to their deaths, but others showed no sign of illness at all?? My veterianarian suspects a bacterial infection, but how did it spread to both ponds which are isolated from each other? and how are the terrestrial turtles also falling victim? Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this or has any thoughts as to the cause. The only constant appears to be the rain, but how could that kill young healthy turtles in a matter of days?? Any thought greatly appreciated.
Many thanks,
Maggie Camperlengo

What have you been feeding them?
Is it just me or have other people been reading the labels on the turtle & fish pellet foods?
Wheat gluten is in many of them... check your labels & see if possibly the food has the same problem dog & cat food do.
I check the AVMA website often, a ferret food has now been added to the recall list.
Makes me fear pellets for any of my pets no matter what the species.
-----
PHRatz

>>What have you been feeding them?
>>Is it just me or have other people been reading the labels on the turtle & fish pellet foods?
>>Wheat gluten is in many of them... check your labels & see if possibly the food has the same problem dog & cat food do.
>>I check the AVMA website often, a ferret food has now been added to the recall list.
>>Makes me fear pellets for any of my pets no matter what the species.
>>-----
>>PHRatz

If the food can be ruled out and the only constant seems to be the rain, then it's very possible that they suffered from a strain of Botulism (which would coincide with your vet's assumption of a bacterial infection). This nasty bacteria can lay dormant in soil for a long while and then when it rains, run off into the ponds and then start producing the toxin. I know here in the mid-Atlantic area we have had a bit of an outbreak in botulism infecting birds (mainly water fowl and raptors) within the past 6 months or so. While botulism tends to be more prevalent in birds and fish, I don't see why turtles could not also be infected. At work we spent 2 months rehabbing a white domestic duck that became partially paralyzed from the toxin after a minor flooding of the lake due to heavy rains last November. Another infected duck did not survive. A couple months ago we had a red-tail hawk come in that was assumed at first to have been hit by a car but in fact was having trouble flying due to being infected and fell into a roadway. He has since recovered from that, but apparently had a secondary infection in one of his feet that is now taking hold. He may or may not make it. He had to have one talon amputated and he's at risk of losing 1 more and it's on the back part of the foot.. if he loses it, he will never be releasable. If the entire foot becomes infected to the point of having to remove it completely he will have to be euthanized.

Come to think of it, we had an eastern garter and a couple of baby black rat snakes that came in at various times this winter/spring that were behaving strangely, lethargic, erratic movements, convulsions and soon died. If I remember rightly it was during periods of rain. It might be they too could have been suffering from the botulism toxin.

I would try to see if you can get your vet to run some tests on the water from your pond, maybe the soil around it and even a blood test from the dead or still remaining live animals to see if there is indeed a strain of botulism involved. Nasty stuff it can be. Humans can become infected too.
-----
_____

PHWyvern

>>If the food can be ruled out and the only constant seems to be the rain, then it's very possible that they suffered from a strain of Botulism (which would coincide with your vet's assumption of a bacterial infection). This nasty bacteria can lay dormant in soil for a long while and then when it rains, run off into the ponds and then start producing the toxin. I know here in the mid-Atlantic area we have had a bit of an outbreak in botulism infecting birds (mainly water fowl and raptors) within the past 6 months or so.

I haven't heard about this until you posted then this morning I turned on the TV news & there was a story about a monkey at the Denver Zoo dying from this.
So yikes.. is this an outbreak that's sweeping the nation or is about to?
I agree those tests you recommended should be run on the turtles if the food is ruled out.
-----
PHRatz