Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I will be getting my new dragon from the Dachiu's here very soon and I'd like to know everyone's opinion from handling and feeding when I receive my baby. I've read a few caresheets and I've never had a dragon shipped to me before so I'm looking for info that'll help my new baby adjust without stressing her out too much. How long should I wait until I feed her the first time? Obviously I'll have to handle her to get her into her new enclosure so should this handling be very brief? Should I leave her alone (as far as viewing) for a few days except for feeding? Anything you can tell me would help out...Thanks guys

-Keith

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kill 'em with kindness

I suggest not handling the new dragon for at least 2 weeks after you place him into his new home. Just feed and clean and pretty much leave him be otherwise. You can look and talk to him but don't handle unless absolutely necessary (ie need to clean the cage, instead of just spot clean). Make sure he is eating well, active and problem free. the two weeks gives him all the time he needs to settle into his new home.

After two weeks then you can start handling im for very short periods of time
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PHLdyPayne

sorry PHLdyPayne...I didn't want to disagree with you and actually I can't even say that I diagree with you. I actually see your point. I just don't think I will wait that long. I won't be doing allot of handling at first but I'm sure I will interact with her after quite a few days. I'm sure what you mean is by regular daily handling wait a few weeks. I'm down with that. I know me though and I'm sure I'll handle her after a couple days to check her and to start weighing her and feeding her. Stuff like that. I take into consideration allot of your information so I'm gonna come up with a acceptable compromise on this issue.
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kill 'em with kindness

The Dachiu dragons are very hardy. Have your cage setup before your dragon arrives. If you know what day she is coming I would have the cage warm too. I fed mine sucessfully 2 hours after I got them. That gave them time to fully warm up. Just keep in mind that I drive to the Dachiu's so the trip back is only 1 1/2 hours, a lot shorter then a day shipping. Since they don't sell dragons under 6", 3/8" or pet store smalls are fine. Just pitch any particularly large crickets that may be mixed in. Crickets should have bodies no larger than the distance between your dragons eyes. Dachiu's are also established salad eaters. So I would put one in there as soon as she arrives too. Just greens only and torn to pieces smaller than your dragons head.

I have to disagree with LdyPayne on the handling thing though. I think it's fine to handle her for short periods of time even an hour or so after she has eaten. Maybe you could consider waiting a day since she will have had a long trip. If she seems scared or nervous put her back. If she closes her eyes it means she's scared and you should return her to her home. Don't pick her up by scooping her from the sides or squeezing her body from the sides. Slide your fingers between her front legs and gently pick her up. Then support her legs and tail. Keep in mind that instintively they fear predators from above so bring your hand to her from the front.

I have been to the Dachiu's and have picked up many of their babies way smaller than the one you are going to get and often they will walk right onto your hand.I think the sooner that your dragon recognizes and is comfortable with you the better for both of you.

Do you know when she will arrive?

I actually just got off the phone with Vicki around 7:30 and she said she'd ship out on Monday so she'll be here bright and early Tuesday!!! Man you'd think for someone that previously had a big boy dragon, POGO (21" @ 520 grams) that I wouldn't be so nervous. I guess it's just that a few things have changed since 2003 like feeders and such. I see that husbandry is still the same and the debate on playsand still goes on! haha...Not much changes here, huh? You know I never even asked them there location although I think it's , PA???? Anyhow yea I planned on getting the setup done probably Monday night. I do have to disagree with PHLdyPayne's comment about the handling. I thought she'd maybe tell me not to handle for a few days but not a few weeks. I don't think I could do that. I have kids so that would feel like I'm neglecting my kid or something. Haha... I guess I'll play it by ear and give her at least a day or so to acclimate. The rest should be like riding a bike!

P.s., sorry PHLdyPayne. I may disagree on that one thing but you've been very helpful to me back then in 2003 when I was having the coccidia problem with Pogo and now that I'm getting restarted. Hey friends can agree to disagree can't they??? !!!

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kill 'em with kindness

Funny. I just talked to Vickie too. They are in Honeybrook, Pa which is about an hour west of Philly. Their place is nothing short of impressive. As always they get my highest recommendation. She is going to find me a BF for a very large female I have. This female is so large that my only male is just afraid of her. lol. She laid 36 eggs and topped out at a whopping 630 before losing 150 grams worth of eggs this week.

Wow. Is this the dragon you received from Vicki and Rob? that's a big girl. Poor, Vicki I had like a billion and one questions for her when I called and she was very happy to answer everything. Haha...Did you mention me at all when you talked to her? Not that I'd expect you to but I did mention to her that I go on Kingsnake for info...I wished I had the available funds because I'd prefer to get 2 dragons instead of one but for now I'll just be anxious to get my feet wet again.
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kill 'em with kindness

No. The dragon is a rescued dragon named Simone. Simone had a very difficult start to her life, but is hands down my favorite. She was extremely slow growing. I got her when she was about 6 months old and not quite 8". Once I got her eating regularly she just never stops. lol. She has a very long body. I guess that's how she can hold 36 eggs. Even Vickie was impressed with that number. I never really mention Kingsnake when I talk to her or Rob since it is anonymous and there would be no way to connect a handle to someone they know. Plus it never really comes up. lol. With my new setup I have room to take in 7 more Beardies or other desert reptiles. Most will likely be rescues.

Wow 8" at 6 months of age? Yea I see she had it hard. that's great what a turn around she made with your help. What exactly do you mean by KINGSNAKE is anonymous? Was that a bad thing of me mentioning that to her? What I meant was I just wondered if you might have said something to her about knowing I might buy a dragon from them, but I suppose I'd be stupid to think you might. Hahaha.. Don't mind me it's Friday! Do you have any pictures of your setup? I'd really like to see if your open to sharing!
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kill 'em with kindness

There's a long story with Simone. I actually had her twice. Between the 1st and 2nd time she suffered from MBD and lost 7 of her toes on her back feet.

Kingsnake is anonymous because it uses "handles" and keeps personal information private. You can contact a person directly by clicking on their handle after "posted by" but otherwise posters don't know other posters email etc. I don't think anyone is trying to hide anything but it just makes sense to not give out personal info. I don't think it's a bad thing to have mentioned it. Kingsnake is a great resource to trade information with other keepers/breeders.

The Dachiu's sell a lot of Dragons. Literally 1000's a year. They are busy people and I just don't usually chit chat over the phone. When I go there I and they generally have much more time for just talking etc.

I have no problem showing my setup. The picture below is my old setup. It is 3 glass terrariums from Glasscages.com. 2 are 4 x 2 x 17" Tall and the center on is 5 x 2 x 17" tall. I have fallen out of love with glass terraruims since they require a lot of electric to heat. I've calculated that it cost me $75 a month to heat the 3 of them in the winter. Heat naturally rises so there is a lot of waste with an open top enclosure.

I will show what I am changing to in the next post since I am too computer illiterate to post more than 1 picture at a time.

The design came from an idea I got from what the Dachiu's have. The sliding glass doors are at a 75 degree angle to discourage the dragons from climbing the glass. The front right is a "cricket coral". It has aluminum tape on the dividers that crickets cannot climb. (again a Rob Dachiu idea) There is shelf liner in this area and the rest is playsand. The basking area sits above 4 hides. (Not a Dachiu idea) All my enclosures use Helix Thermostats. It is 5 x 3 1/2 x 2 high. It uses 2 50W Zoo Med spots to heat it. It has 3 - 3' Zoo Med 10.0 fluorescent fixtures running front to back. (I'm only using 2 right now) The spotlight fixture also accomodates a black night bulb for the winter. The screen is a piece of shelving that gives extra ventilation for the summertime. I will eventually stack 2 on top of each other. 2 will be 5' long and 2 will be 4' long. One terrarium setup will remain wich will be used as a nest box.

In the last picture the hides are blocked off. I did this until the dragon in the picture got used to his new home. Otherwise he tends to hide all day in a new place. The picture below is of the shelf with the hides exposed. The cage is made from melamine. The shelf has slate tiles on top and a slate tile ramp.

Wow looks really involved...I like the idea though. I'm still a lil confused about the lighting on the top inside of the cage. Doesn't the Melamine get too hot with the lighting that close? Yea once my baby gets a lil bit bigger I plan on a custom cage myself so I've been thinking of things myself...
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kill 'em with kindness

I measured and temp gunned it for you. The spot bulbs are 5" away from the top and the temp. above the bulbs is only 115. The melting point for Melamine is 345 degrees.

It really wasn't that hard to build. But of course I do renovations for a living. lol.

Below is a link where I descibe how I made it.

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1301100,1302363

Okay thanks I guess it does work out then...Question what are Helix Themometers? Something new since I've been away from here? Also how far are you flueroescents from your dragon? How long do those last BTW? I used MVB's for my last dragon and was thinking about going to flueroescents cuz a few posts I've read make me weary of the mvb....
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kill 'em with kindness

Helix Thermostats are proportional thermostats. Meaning that they dim the lights if the temp exceeds the set temp. Some thermostats only go on/off to regulate temp. but that wouldn't work well with lights and bearded dragons. I get mine from Rich Goldzung at Reptilebasics.com. They run about $140 each as I remember.

The Zoo Med Reptisun bulbs are effective to 20" so I worked it out so that nowhere in the enclosure is the dragon more than 20" away. Assuming I use all 3 fixtures. They are much closer when on the basking spot. Zoo Med says the bulbs should be replaced once a year.

WOW !!! that is an awesome cage, I like it better than the one I just built. Did you design it yourself? I would like the pattern to make one like it. Is melamine hard to work with?
Joni

http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1301100,1302363

The address above tells instructions on the making of my cage. I don't find melamine hard to work with at all given the peramiters I mentioned. It has passed temp. testing and application with flying colors. I am in the process of building 3 more.

Yea I'll have to check out that link and come up a design..I plan on building something really soon for my new buddy...
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kill 'em with kindness

What? You disagree with me? Your in trouble now boy!

Just kidding LOL

Two weeks is a long time to be completely 'hands off' with a new pet and it definitely doesn't mean handling before that time means your dragon will be stressed etc. I give 2 weeks mostly because it ensures they are well established and eating well, used to their new home and familiar with their knew owners.

Some dragons adapt alot faster than others, so 2 weeks of hands off is not a hard rule. I also know most people with a new pet won't have the patience to wait two weeks....but may wait a couple days at least or maybe a week. A week is a good time to wait, better than one day or no days.

It does really depend how the dragon accepts his new home. Some dragons will treat a 24 hour or longer stint in a box as a nice long rest and as soon as they warm up in their new cage, are ready to chow down and act like nothing changed. They may also take to being handled much faster. So playing by ear is good to. If a few minutes of daily handling causes no change in eating/behavior patterns (in a negative way that is) then a couple days may be perfectly fine. Alot of newbies dragon owners mistake the 'freeze so they can't see me' reaction of terrified dragon as 'he is so calm, he must love being handled'. More often then not, the dragon will realize freezing doesn't keep the big huge monster from hovering around him, and decide fleeing is the next best thing... then the new owner wonders why little dragon was so calm for the first couple weeks and now is psycho dragon.

Hence why I suggest two weeks.
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PHLdyPayne

Yea I disagreed! What ya gonna do about it? hahaha...Besides disagreeing with ya keeps ya smart and up on your game! Nothing would ever get done if there wasn't a difference in opinion, right? Seriously though I'll definetely take your points into consideration. I have enough patience for a few days and then after that I will play it by ear and limit my handling. I know with Pogo I handled him daily the day I brought him home and he was a very docile lil guy. I don't think he ever ran from me. As I stated before he eagerly allowed me to feed him (all his favorite feeders and greens from the blender) by a needless syringe every couple days. Well gotta take the kids to the park! Thanks for your info. I'll have more questions for ya in the future!...haha...
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kill 'em with kindness