Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I found this little girl under a sheet of plywood -

I then found this adult female under a door at the same spot that yielded the baby male I found last year -

Both of these snakes were found in Southern Maryland today before noon.
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

Nice find Peter! Another tough day at the office? LOL!
I love the super thin bands on the second one. Both are nice though. So both of us found two female Easterns in one week..........Nice!
-Phil

I don't know how that first one is going to turn out but that second one is a smoker. Those are the types of easterns i like.
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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

.

onsidering the southerns are the goini influenced yellow bandeds and the northerns are the classic easterns. Yes.
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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

Very nice. I like the thin banded Easterns the best.

with all the locality eastern kingsnakes and the collection of floridana?

daveb

Dave,

I am officially done with selling snakes. East Coast Colubrids is still kicking but it is really just a tight circle of my friends and we field herp Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina. Only a few are in the "ECC Inner Circle".

Once my 2 boys (and a third is coming in June) get a little bigger and more self-sufficient I will put that site back up. I do have some colubrids now but I am not breeding much. All of the babies I produce - like from the Maryland Kings I caught yesterday - are going to go out for free to my friends and people that are interested in locality pure animals. I just grew tired with all of the marketing of these snakes and the value people have put on un-natural mutants - treating them like baseball cards to collect even though they live for 15 years .
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

Mutants? If you mean reccessive genes may I remind you they came from wildcaught snakes. IMO the normals are just boring as heck. Especially when it comes to easterns. Seen one, seen em all.

Maybe you are just bored with wildcaught animals and just need to move on.....but then again you can't with easterns because there aren't any reccessive traits found in easterns, yet.

I used to work with locality specific rosy boas. They all look different from each locale. With easterns you still have a lot of variance within each locale. But still when recessive traits (MURANTS) where finally found rosy freaks went bezerk. I would think true died in the wool eatsern locale guys would do the smae when something that is recoreded will be found. I remember the first albino rosy found in Whitewater cyn. We always fantasized about what a amel rosy would look like. Since then there have been hypos, amels, axanthic, anerys ect found. Yes some of these traits were mixed and matched to create snows but rosy people knew this. No one was anti morphs (ie.MUTANTS). The new recccessive traits by crossing locales was just an accepeted next step in the evolution in herpetoculture. And last time I looked this IS herpetoculture and not herpetology. That is what we and this board and this hobby is all about. IMO there is nothing new under the sun with herpetology. Herpetoculture is what we are all here for. Right?
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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

Rainer -

These "mutants" you refer to are linebred freaks that should be euthanized in my opinion.

One or more may be found on occasion in the wild and that is it. If they (the genes that cause a specific trait like amelanism) were positive changes in the physiology of a particular snake species well then mother nature would "select" that trait for survival and therefore it would not be rare: it would be the NORMAL phenotype. However, it is not and the animals are normally IMMEDIATELY eaten by predators, etc.

People started to treasure the colorful mutant-morphs simply because they were different. Now they are common and make herpers look like beanie-baby collectors. That's it.

We disagree on this Rainer.
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

Rainer -

We disagree on this Rainer.

Who says they don't survive in the wild? There is no data supporting this. Can you prove that they don't survive? Or is it just heresay.

Here is some proof that amelanitic snakes DO survive in the wild and are able to avoid predators. There are many other examples but this one was just found last week. So I thought I would post it. It is estimated that this Glossy is 3 years old. Glossys in general grow a lot slower than other snakes. Even in captivity they are documented slow growers. A captive specimen that was raised from hatchling caught in the fall took 3 years to reach 18 inches and had barely reached 24 in its 5th year.

"These "mutants" you refer to are linebred freaks that should be euthanized in my opinion."

These kind of staments made on a forum FOR breeding, gets my troll of the week award.

Congrats!

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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

Rainer,

Please - no need to accuse me of being a troll. I would think that writing a post in here that says that all Eastern Kingsnakes are the same and boring (as you just did) would also be considered "trolling" as well, don't you think? That's not why I am here.

You can point out isolated examples of surviving mutants but it is not a valid argument. That is all they are - ISOLATED. The fact that they get so much attention is a testament to how unusual they are because they do not usually survive. If one or more survives to be found it is just as well - unless it is a beneficial trait for survival I doubt that its bloodline will live on.

They are unusual and marketed as such - like a stamp with a misprint: defective but different - so desireable to certain people.

Bah!
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

1) "I just grew tired with all of the marketing of these snakes and the value people have put on un-natural mutants"

3) "they are common and make herpers look like beanie-baby collectors."

4)"no need to accuse me of being a troll"

LOL!

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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

Is that the glossy found by Jeff Lemm?
I thought Jeff (a Herpetology Ph.D.) estimated it as last years YoY
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3.6 L. getula californiae - 19 eggs (Cal. King)
1.1 L. getula nigrita (MBK)
1.0 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
3.3 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

Is that the glossy found by Jeff Lemm?
I thought Jeff (a Herpetology Ph.D.) estimated it as last years YoY

He did but then others commented that glossys grow very slow even on a diet in captivity and that there is no way that snake is only a year old. Just because someone has a degree in herpetology does not make an expert in herpetoculture. They are two different things.

They start off pretty small and they grow slow.

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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

That may be the case - if I recall, Jeff is one of those who hardly collects anything - he may not have experience with that species.

It was a nice find - I hope he breeds it, an amel glossy line would be exempt from F&G regulation.
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3.6 L. getula californiae - 19 eggs (Cal. King)
1.1 L. getula nigrita (MBK)
1.0 Pantherophis guttatus guttatus (Corn)
0.1 Pituophis catenifer catenifer (Pacific gopher)
3.3 Elgaria multicarinata multicarinata (Cal. Alligator Lizard)

((((IMO the normals are just boring as heck. Especially when it comes to easterns. Seen one, seen em all))))
Guess you havn't seen too many easterns in your life....

(((((With easterns you still have a lot of variance within each locale.)))) Guess maybe you HAVE seen a lot of easterns in your life....

.....WALKING CONTRADICTION......
?????????????????????????????????????

Hybrids...seen one seen em' all: "Junglecornasinathayerilenops"
Or how bout a "Peanutbutterpitouphilapheternamolossus"
Or : "Jellylampromophiglienabacuratrox"
Just smear a bunch of scent from one female snake into a bucket full of other female lizards, insert male snake and wolla: Slizards!!! The NEW hybrid! BEAT THAT!!!

Got my boat motor set to 8 knots....(and lures dragging)....
ROFLMAO!!!

Pic of a "seen one, seen em' all easterns" (NOT A HYBRID):

I still love ya all!!!! PEACE,
Zee

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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Pic of a "seen one, seen em' all easterns" (NOT A HYBRID):

No thats a goini X eastern and a cool one to boot. Remember I had the inside scoop on those before anyone cared for easterns. I got that info from the guy who started the widebanded eastern thing and he slpipped up. You know the story. Believe whatever makes you feel better. I still like the wide bands and don't have a problem with goini x easterns crosses.

Maybe I should not have said anything about the easterns in my reply to ECC about my my opinion of easterns looking the same. IThe reason i responded to ECC was because of his duragotory hateful posts of "beanie-baby collecting line bred freaks that produce mutants that should be euthanized". So don't get your panties in a wad and try to pick the speck out of a sandhill here.
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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

(((((With easterns you still have a lot of variance within each locale.)))) Guess maybe you HAVE seen a lot of easterns in your life....

.....WALKING CONTRADICTION......
?????????????????????????????????????

Nope, that was a walking typo.
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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

You may dream of Amels, but others don't. I agree with the overal dislike of line breeding out expressed recessive traits that make the snake look "unnatural." Its basically genetic engineering, which can be done because of the speed of breeding snakes. Then people cross naturals with these line bred unnatural forms, and what you get is het for "I don't know what the f* this is." I can understand if breeders kept the lines clean. Natural versions separate from genetically "enhanced" versions. I've seen many "miami" corns from the homestead florida area. The marketed "Miami" morph is an exagerated version of a very attractive "local" version of cornsnakes that really does not need alteration. If you wish to do so, then keep the lines distinct.

Very nice Peter - both of them! Good score!
That big female looks gravid! - Better hold on to that one!

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

I have been waiting for your response to this find. I could not palpate any eggs in here. Only time will tell. Brad Bauserman is sending the male back (that I caught 20 feet away from her spot) so next year I hope to get some zip-code locality-matched Calvert County Kings!

Gonna try to locate a male in the next couple of weeks to pair up with her. They are not exactly easy to find (this ain't North Carolina!) up here but I will do my best.
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

I still think she may be gravid - just not quite far enough along to feel her eggs yet (especially if she's had a meal recently). After all the snakes in YOUR part of the world probably don't start laying til at least mid June...
(mid - late June, in Upstate NY.)

Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Zee,

Cross your fingers for it, baby!
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com