Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hello everyone, can someone give me a feeding schedule that worked for them in the past...Im feeding a 4ft sav monitor and Im just trying to figure out the best schedule to keep. Hes a perfect weight and gets a lot of exercise. Thanks!

?? the sav will make the feeding schedule...

Tom

How old is your Sav? If he's still young like a hatchling or a juvy, I would feed him everytime he's is hungry and as much as he will eat in one sitting. I find my Sav to be hungry everyother day when it was a juvy and I fed him fuzzy mice as the staple. Perhaps when he or she is full grown you can try feeding him adult mice less...maybe enough so he doesn't get fat, but enough to staisfy his hunger. I usually tap on the cage wall with my tongs to let my Sav know it's feeding time and he comes running over like he's never been fed before. LOL! Cute, huh.

it is my experience that poor husbandry causes obesity in monitors, not feeding...as in there is no such thing as over-feeding a monitor. I see so many savs that look like large fat toads more than a monitor...it's sad and that condition was NOT caused by over-feeding. It was caused by piss poor husbandry.

Restricting the food intake of your monitor is rather cruel in my opinion and unnecessary. Provide the right temp ranges and feed him all he wants.

Good luck

Tom

I do provide high very hot air temp at the basking site, but I do find he will get fat if I fed him too much. Animals do have fat reserve in time of femine in the wild they live off this fat reserve. I do give him plenty of food, but just not in the amount that will make him morbidly obiese. I find the best cure is lots of excercise outside the cage like swimming and letting him chase down the food will often work. I often whole the dead mice with the tongs and drag it around for him to chase. This is also why I give him plenty of room to live in.

You need to focus on surface temps not air temps. I find high air temps make my cages far too hot and are not what the animal is using anyway. I use room temp as a base air temp and provide surface heat 24/7. That might be where you are having trouble. I will however disagree and say with proper temps and husbandry adult males can get overfed. IMO Common sense prevails here, if you notice your monitor getting fat you check your conditions first and adjust your diet second. On the other hand you will go broke before you over feed a growing juvie or breeding female.

Steve

My (limited) experiences in this regard:

7 yr. old female blackthroat fed as much as she will eat (90% rats) daily for the last 18 mos. or so. No hint of obesity, just significant growth. She went from a large lizard to a WOW she’s huge lizard in this time, gaining more than a foot in length and 15 lbs at least in healthy bulk. She also seems much more alert and healthy in every way. She will turn down food once a week or so. Ok, maybe less than that, but she does sometimes.

2 yr. old female (?) blackthroat fed as much as she will eat (90% rats / mice) for the last 6 mos. No hint of obesity, just significant growth. Eats like a monitor.

1.5 yr. old black roughneck female (?) fed as much as she will eat (100% mice) every day for the last 3 mos. She was obese; she is now losing her belly and growing.

The rest of my experience involves monitors less than one year old so they follow the rapid growth and food intake of all baby / juv monitors. They all eat as much as they want every day and grow like weeds with no indication of obesity.

Many times I have seen adult savs so fat they look more like large ugly toads than monitors. Their obesity is pretty gross. They invariably had their food intake restricted (with no corresponding fat loss) leaving the owner confused why their toad monitor wasn’t doing well.

This all leads me to believe monitor obesity has nothing much to do with food intake.

Just my two cents.

Tom

You are visiting two extremes. Monitors are not suppose to perform in high gear continiously. They are designed to perform at high speed, then slow down for periods.

Yes you can feed them as much as they will eat, but sooner or later if you do not allow then to rest, they will fail. But without question, they will do well until they fail.

Whoops an interruption, my son spotted a six foot gophersnake in the driveway.

The point is, they feed as much as they can for a period of time, until the source runs out, then they conserve energy. That is what they do.

The problem with that is, man does not know how to deal with things on a fluxuating schedule.

When you tell folks to feed as much as they will eat. That may not work out so well, as you have no idea as to how they are keeping their monitor. For instance, some keepers conditions may only support feeding once a week(does not allow a higher metabolism range) and their charges will get FAT on one feeding a week. Or if kept continiously hot, they can starve to death feeding every other day.

So to say what they do is fine with you set up, but to talk about what they do, has to start with how they are kept.

Also without question, the older they get, the less food it takes to support them. Older males will get fat and non productive females(if there is such a thing)

My recomendation is, keep an eye on your own monitor, if its doing good and progressing, your doing fine, If its not, change something. Cheers

FR,
Is a Savannah Monitor's metabolism generally slower than most other monitors? Seems like I hear/read that somewhere & I'd like to know if its true or not.

Thanks!
HH
-----
It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

NO, why would it be? In fact, they can run really fast.

THe problem is reptiles and monitors are a very good example. Lets try something new to help think about this. All monitors have a range of metabolism, lets say from one to 20. Their metabolism is based on moisture, then temperature. That is, is reptiles cannot maintain their moisture levels, they stay inactive, I do not care what time of year it is. If they decide they can not dehydrate, then they heat up and become active. How hot they can heat up to, determines their metabolism. So if you only allow them to heat up to 70F, then they can reach 5 on that scale. If they can reach 80F, then 10 on that scale. 90F, will allow 15 on that scale. Over 100 will allow them full metabolism(20).

Whats important is, they do not run at one degree of metabolism, they pick and choose to fit their needs. On this scale, they will pick from 10 to 20 to accomplish different tasks. When below 10 then are in resting mode. When below 5 they are in brumation/hibernation.

They do not need 20 all the time as they do not want to get stuck at 10. They want the ability to choose whats right for them.

So most people keep them at 10 to 12 on that scale and wonder why they fail. Or cannot do what other monitors are doing. They wonder why they cannot eat large amounts or large prey items. They can do both, but they need to be able to raise their metabolism to do so. They wonder why they do not grow fast, of course they cannot when undermetabolized. They wonder why their monitors do not breed. To reproduce requires the full range, not part of it.

I hope you can understand this, cheers

Nice, i like the scale analogy / illustration, it helps me understand, thank you.

Now given the options, it would appear from my experience that they will regulate their place on the scale themselves. Sometimes our big girl blackthroat is very obviously running at a 20 and other times I'd say 8-9 max. It fluctuates a lot. I admit there seems to be a few weeks here and there that she runs hot seemingly non-stop, but that is rare. Hopefully this doesnt hurt her, certainly doesnt appear to (very healthy looking).

Good info - nice size gopher snake. Now there's success hahaha.

Tom

Boy, am I glad I asked. I've always heard that they didn't need to be fed as often as other monitors.

I'm not one to be ashamed to admit my faults. I've got more homework to do than I thought I did.

I've got a 2-ft-plus sav that's a recent W/C and is growing fairly fast with feedings of 1 sm. rat every other day & sometimes I'll skip an extra day. It's on the heavy side.

I've got a nile that's about 9 mos. old, eats 1 rat pup every day but seems to be growing slow. It's weight appears to be about right.

For one thing, I know both need bigger cages, which I've been meaning to build but haven't had the time. I think its time to TAKE the time & git 'er done.

And just when you think you've got it all figur'd out,......... WHAM!!! (Just kiddin'! I know I've still got a lot to learn, even with snakes, which I've kept for over 30 yrs.)

Thanks for the insight, it's much appreciated and won't go to waste!

Have a good one!
HH
-----
It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

this is only the start on answering your question. it needs much more- data for multiple specimens of each species as well as data at different temperatures and also postprandial metabolic rate which, in savs, can vary 4 times in magnitude depending on the animal's temperature.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/k4530837770t4863/
Stephen C. Wood, Kjell Johansen, Mogens L. Glass and G. M. O. Maloiy1

"Oxygen consumption (VO2) was measured at rest and during spontaneous activity at body temperatures of 25 and 35°C in 14 fasting Savanna monitor lizards,Varanus exanthematicus ranging in weight from 172 to 7500 g. The allometric relationship between metabolic rate at 25°C and body weight (W) is given by: VO2 (ml O2 STPD·g^–1·hr^–1)=0.88W ^–0.43 . Although statistical comparisons are equivocal, this intraspecific size dependence exceeds that reported for interspecific comparisons among reptiles and other vertebrate groups.

fasting Savanna monitor metabolic rate at 25°C and body weight (W) is given by: VO2 (ml O2 STPD·g^-1·hr^-1)=0.88W ^-0.43"

with some exertion you might be able to dig up some measurements for at least a few other species.

Nice stuff but as usual out of context.

No offense, but mucking with them causes all the numbers to be wacked. For instance, how they measure the oxygen levels increases oxygen use. Therefore inaccurate. This occurs on our field studies(with snakes)as well.

What we are looking at here is voluntary choices and why. Not forced behaviors. For instance, why were 14 savs fasting, they were not being fed???? Why? The reason I ask is, monitors are not windup toys, they have many reactions to the same stimlus. Fasting does not cause one metabolistic rate, it causes many different ones. In otherwords, to cause fasting sets of a series of behaviors and metabolic rates both up and down, that will end with a dead animal. These decreases and increases, will also depends on ambient choices and many other stimuli. Both in nature and in captivity.

Again, its apples to oranges. We need to understand what the animals picks on its own accord, for their own needs, not what its forced to do. At least most of us. Cheers

>>this is only the start on answering your question. it needs much more- data for multiple specimens of each species as well as data at different temperatures and also postprandial metabolic rate which, in savs, can vary 4 times in magnitude depending on the animal's temperature.
>>
>>http://www.springerlink.com/content/k4530837770t4863/
>>Stephen C. Wood, Kjell Johansen, Mogens L. Glass and G. M. O. Maloiy1
>>
>>"Oxygen consumption (VO2) was measured at rest and during spontaneous activity at body temperatures of 25 and 35°C in 14 fasting Savanna monitor lizards,Varanus exanthematicus ranging in weight from 172 to 7500 g. The allometric relationship between metabolic rate at 25°C and body weight (W) is given by: VO2 (ml O2 STPD·g^–1·hr^–1)=0.88W ^–0.43 . Although statistical comparisons are equivocal, this intraspecific size dependence exceeds that reported for interspecific comparisons among reptiles and other vertebrate groups.
>>
>>fasting Savanna monitor metabolic rate at 25°C and body weight (W) is given by: VO2 (ml O2 STPD·g^-1·hr^-1)=0.88W ^-0.43"
>>
>>with some exertion you might be able to dig up some measurements for at least a few other species.

Much more info....funny you should say that since you sited a study of 14 savs....hardly a significant number and the data is from 1978. Going back 25yrs to my college days when I had a brain I want to say that cellular respiration is dependant on humidity and temperature. HMmmmmmm this is sounding like it all relates back to husbandry again.
-----
Sonya

I'm not mean. You're just a sissy.
Happy Bunny

Please don't misunderstand me or misinterpret this reply, its meant in jest.

I do believe that science has its place, just not here in "hillbilly land." I ain't got no intentions on pokin' my sav to measure its oxygen levels to see if I'm a doin' things right.

Seriously though, I understand why you posted the data and I'm not makin' fun of you for it or trying to put you down because of it. I do appreciate you trying to help explain things.

(Now, back to the funny side of life)
Formulas
Heh, that formula looks like jap writin' to me.

I've only used one formual my whole life, and I still use it to this day. It has served me well.

Here it is:
20 = (2bf plus 2 bh)
Formula breakdown:
20 = (2 bare feet plus 2 bare hands)[fingers & toes]

Take care!
HH
-----
It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.