Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I got a pair of greeri last march, having not been brumated I breed them and got 8 slugs, I figure it is because of the lack of brumation and chaulk it up as a loss that will be covered this season. This year I brought them up fed them, the female never had a post brumation shed, only a prelay shed. well she laid eggs that were white and looked good except they were soft and look like a flattened bike tire. I have no idea what the problem is. I brumated them at the same temp (~65) as my corns and alterna, and have had 4 clutches (3-corns 1-alterna) with zero duds this year. I also feed all my female mexicana/alterna lizards 3 meals before and after brumation. Any ideas what caused this?
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South Texas Herps

When I was breeding my Greeri I let them get into the 50's and always had good luck with them.

I don't know if this is what's causingthe problem with your eggs.

Sounds like what I call "wet bag" eggs. They are infertile. Generally speaking the causes are too warm of hibernation, too warm of post hibernation temps and/or bad timing.

As the other poster said it should get down to 50 for most of the hibernation. Sometimes if there are warm daytime temps during hibernation this can cause the female to ovulate. I believe if the males are exposed to continuous high temps after hibernation it can kill their sperm. Often females ovulate almost immedeately after coming out of hibernation and they are easy to miss.

I keep my males at room temp(65-75) with a hot spot of only 70-75 occasionally bumping it up to 80-82 for a couple days following a meal.

There seems to be some strong evidence that fertility in graybands is dramaticly improved with a diet of lizards so nutrtion could play a part for greeri too.

This year I got two clutchs of greeri. Fetility ratios appear to be 4 out of 6 on one and 2 out of 6 on the other. Not great but ok. I think my temps are good but I have heard bringing the males up about two weeks before the females helps them form more and better sperm. I always intend to try that but never have and my males always seem to be just going into a shed cycle when the females are ready to breed.

Generally most mexicana are considered to have the same needs in terms of feeding, brumation, post brumation care, ect. I treated everything, from corns to alterna to mexicana the exact same, except the corns did not get any lizards while the alterna and mexicana did. I dont know I'm confused. And I'm not so sure that 55 degrees is needed, as most underground temps are in the 65 degree area. (Average temp - 20 degrees = temp 6' underground) or something like that.
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South Texas Herps

Sorry, I did not read your post carefully enough. Re: temps, alterna come from areas ranging from hot desert to mountainous. I think greeri are stricly montane. Also I think underground temps are more like, 55 not 65.

I really think post brumation temps are very important. I have a friend who lived in the Palm Springs, CA area. His hibernation temps got easily down to 55 but in the spring temps shot up. He got many good alterna eggs but not a single good greeri egg ever, for several years. I live on the central coast of CA and spring temps are normally quite chilly and have done fairly well with greeri every year except one year we had a warm spring combined with the fact that I took my snakes out of hibernation about 3 weeks later than normal. The female had actually shed in hibernation already and I got no fertile eggs. Mine always breed within a week of coming out of hibernation.

As far as the lizards, I didn't notice you said you fed your alterna/mexicana some lizards. I really don't have a good answer to that. I was only relating what I heard from a big alterna breeder who said it worked for him.

"I really think post brumation temps are very important. I have a friend who lived in the Palm Springs, CA area. His hibernation temps got easily down to 55 but in the spring temps shot up. He got many good alterna eggs but not a single good greeri egg ever, for several years. I live on the central coast of CA and spring temps are normally quite chilly and have done fairly well with greeri every year except one year we had a warm spring combined with the fact that I took my snakes out of hibernation about 3 weeks later than normal. The female had actually shed in hibernation already and I got no fertile eggs. Mine always breed within a week of coming out of hibernation."

Thats interesting, I would assume they would be very simialar if not the same as other 'mexicana" I guess Ill have to get it colder loger next year for these guys.

How do thayeri compare in this spectrum?
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South Texas Herps