Reptile & Amphibian Forums

O.K. so I think we've had this discussion before about pre-lay sheds in BRBs and how they're meaningless. I have always been in agreement. Then I read a post a few days ago that got me thinking (I think Bob posted a post somewhere that was originally written by Jeff Rhone). In the post he talked about a post-ovulatory shed in BCIs and used this to gauge when the babies would be born. He says babies come about 105 days after the post-ovulatory shed. I just went back to my records from last year and what do you know... I recorded sheds for two of the three females that gave birth last year. One was 107 days before she dropped. The other was 109 days. I'm thinking that the third female probably experienced the shed but I didn't record it for whatever reason.

So, this year I have three females that have gone through sheds, are refusing food and appear to be gravid. Going by this new theory, I should have babies born on August 1st, August 5th and September 1st (man I hope I'm not jinxing it).

You know, it just makes so much sense. Every other snake species has some type of shed associated with giving birth, why shouldn't our species?

Can the rest of you go back into your notes and take a look at this? I'm hoping that more of you see sheds roughly 105 - 110 days before parturition.

Thanks Jeff Rhone for turning on the light bulb!
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Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

Wow... that is cool! I hope you are right! Next year will be my first year breeding BRB's, and I always record sheds..... so I should have some data to compare then. I hope others chime in with similar results as yours!
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©

and I really don't want one of those prizes you send at the end of the year to the winners of the most babies, biggest litter, biggest baby, earliest litter etc. etc. cuz those tend to get lost in the mail believe it or nothaha lol
Bob

What? You mean you didn't receive your fantastic prize already? Honestly, it should have arrived by now. Dammit, I'm going to have some words for the post office.

Seriously though, thanks for posting that post. It's the sharing of information like that that leads to a better understanding of these animals.
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Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

in the "old" days many people did not want to disseminate any information about their sucesses and or failures. I am not that old to be saying the "old days", but suddenly noticed the music I like costs about 5 dollars on CD.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

What's a "CD", I'm having a heck of a time finding albums anymore. And forget about finding any 8-track tapes. What gives?
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Dark Side of the Moon, hehe, also had 40 different Alice Cooper Alblums as well. It's amazing the amount of progression we have wintnessed in our short lives. When I kept reticulated pythons way back in the day, I was considered "crazy", now look at their status, also, back then Brazilain Rainbows where a "rare" find and VERY EXOTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

Frank,
....I remember those days when a BRB was considered a "zoo only" animal. I saw them a couple times in zoos in the 60s and knew I wanted one. I did see them on pricelists a couple times back then but did not get one. The Colombian Rainbows were considered less exotic because more of them were available cheaper on the pricelists. I think we traded about 40 feet of Yellow Ratsnakes for our first Colombian Rainbow.
Jeff

>>Dark Side of the Moon, hehe, also had 40 different Alice Cooper Alblums as well. It's amazing the amount of progression we have wintnessed in our short lives. When I kept reticulated pythons way back in the day, I was considered "crazy", now look at their status, also, back then Brazilain Rainbows where a "rare" find and VERY EXOTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Frank Roberts
>>Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research
>>

sold by the foot on Herpetofauna Price lists...you rarely see that now a days, I recently think I saw them on Diamond Reptile pricelist on the web, the days are long past when I used to get them in the mail and they usally some odd golor like bright green, pink, etc...had a lot of "dream" snakes on those lists back then.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

the earliest i remember was tapes. . then CD's

does that mean im young or you all are old? . . ..
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Russ
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Apollo)
1.0 Columbian Rainbow Boa (Odin)
1.0 Guyana Red-Tail Boa (Ares)
0.1 Pastel Salmon Boa (Minerva)
0.1 Rosy Boa (Athena)

Melbourne, Fl

...
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

When my younger sister saw some of my records she asked what those things in the milk crates where. After and explanation her response was "Oh, kinda like a big old fashioned CD".

Im young, not ignorant, i love classic rock and i know what was used to record/play music before my time. But yea its showing your age!!
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Russ
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Apollo)
1.0 Columbian Rainbow Boa (Odin)
1.0 Guyana Red-Tail Boa (Ares)
0.1 Pastel Salmon Boa (Minerva)
0.1 Rosy Boa (Athena)

Melbourne, Fl

small vcr tapes or large tapes that played music, i say vcr tapes, because when the damn 8 track player got jammed up, it was like pulling 100 million yards of tape out of the damn thing, wait Tapes did that too, but the "tape" was thinner lol
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

I just like vinyl. My sisters are 8 and 10 years younger than me though so there is definately a generation gap there. Record players were never played around them when they were little. I don't even think they have owned tapes. I can still remember discussing CD's with my friends when they first started gaining popularity with the masses. I was one of those guys who was very relucant to get a CD. I waited to make sure they were going to catch on before trading in my beloved tapes.

>>Im young, not ignorant, i love classic rock and i know what was used to record/play music before my time. But yea its showing your age!!
>>-----
>>Russ
>>1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Apollo)
>>1.0 Columbian Rainbow Boa (Odin)
>>1.0 Guyana Red-Tail Boa (Ares)
>>0.1 Pastel Salmon Boa (Minerva)
>>0.1 Rosy Boa (Athena)
>>
>>Melbourne, Fl

Vinyl is STILL considered a BETTER medium for recording and reproducing high end sound. A buddy of mine has one of those extreme stereo systems. You know the kind where it costs more then many new cars? Anyways, they still use and sell first pressing vinyl for those high end users. CD's are great for reproducing music at the level that is digitized but they do lose some level of upper harmonics.

It still amazes me listening to his system, we'll have whatever cranked to the point the walls are vibrating and can still talk at only slightly above normal volumes and hear each other clear as day!!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Isnt it funny how back in the day vynl was all you had but now it is reserved for only the "high end" sterios and compact discs and such are used for the masses.

I suppose its just that CD's keep a little better then your old vynls (cant toss that old beach boys album in the back seat and get away with it like you can with your CD aye??
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Russ
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Apollo)
1.0 Columbian Rainbow Boa (Odin)
1.0 Guyana Red-Tail Boa (Ares)
0.1 Pastel Salmon Boa (Minerva)
0.1 Rosy Boa (Athena)

Melbourne, Fl

Yeah but it's not the typical vinyl that's used for high end, there's always been special higher end vinyl available, of course with a higher purchase price.

DVD's are great for the masses, much better than std vinyl or cassette and if given reasonable care will last a very long time with thousands of replays.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

thread huh!!!!!!!! Only on the Rainbow Forum you can do that and get away with it and not hear no crap about it. Well you use to anyways fellas
Bob

you see I was in a store the other day and a lot of the music I listen to, was a "bargain buy" type of scenario. My problem is I talk in tangents, often starting and stopping, saying something totally irrelevant to the conversation, then re starting original conversation. I have sooooo much "crap" in my head like most people do, but actually speak that was as well, I didn't intentionally hi-jack the thread. But quite honestly, I am rude and inconsiderate by nature,hence the word "Richard" may as well be tattooed on my forehead.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

I often start conversations and jump to something totally different but not quite that far off topic like yourself but Dave can vouch for me cuz I can be quite confusing sometimes or stupid but I just prefer to labeled as ignorant personally
Bob

I'll vouch that Bob is "confusing sometimes or stupid" and thet he'd prefer to be "labeled as ignorant". All three work well for me as well!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

that hurts and coming from someone I respect like yourself all I have to say is
1-give me your real address so I can have the therapist's bills sent directly to you
2-go make some Corals for me or
3-go back to workhaha
you are a bad man Dave and you are wiped off of my Xmas list again might I add
Bob

removing names from lists!!!!!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

appropriate........
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

a swift kick in the nads while I watched with my hands held behind my back OOOOOUUUUUCCCCCCHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
Bob

p.s. wanna cyberlol

think wou are stupid, Ignorant, and or mentally challenged.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

Ignorant then huh? lol I know you mean well and I am assuming you're j/k and that is why I through that p.s. let's cyber in there just to reassure you that I was pulling your cyber chain lol. That snake is pretty plump for a male huh? (the one from Jeff) Don't know cuz I don't have any adults yet but he is a plump sucker though and may like his women big too
Bob

Hey Bob,
...Be careful you may be taking this thread further off topic with a discussion of big women.
Jeff

>>Ignorant then huh? lol I know you mean well and I am assuming you're j/k and that is why I through that p.s. let's cyber in there just to reassure you that I was pulling your cyber chain lol. That snake is pretty plump for a male huh? (the one from Jeff) Don't know cuz I don't have any adults yet but he is a plump sucker though and may like his women big too
>>Bob

I hope the transition from "vacation" to work goes smoother for you
Bob

she is a lot nicer coloration wise, she is now 1610 grams, when I got her she was like 1100 grams, she is well on her way to becoming a first time mom next season...Thanks Jeff!!!!!!!!!

original photo that Jeff took of her.....she has colored up a lot over the past few months....

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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

Several of the cars I owned when I was young had 8 track players in them. My neighbor had high end stereo equipment and scoffed at 8 track because he liked reel to reel so much better. It is simply amazing that there are so many things that have come into common use and then gone out of use over the last 50 years. I feel really old. I went back to work the last two nights after my 7 month "vacation" and being dead tired does not help any with the feeling old problem.
Jeff

>>What's a "CD", I'm having a heck of a time finding albums anymore. And forget about finding any 8-track tapes. What gives?
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>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>21.29 BRB
>>19.19 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Hope you adjust well, I once broke my kneecap at work and was out 3 for months, part of me HAD to go back to work, but a Good % of me liked being home.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

I admit I hadn't been keeping great records before, when group breeding I didn't note who shed when and therefore don't have any good history. Started keeping records last year and of the three that had litters I've lost the records for two and the third I don't have a recorded shed. Darn!!

Now for the good news....This year I have detailed records on ALL of my females. Can't be 100% certain I caught and recorded all sheds but I believe I have them all. Was already intending on correlating the shed and litter dates to see what I could come up with.

AND, looking at the data, using 105 days, the last week of August should be a deluge of babies, no less than 5 litters all due within one 8 day period!!!! I do have earlier sheds recorded for all but I don't believe they were POS sheds as mating was still going on.

Looking forward to getting all this data to mean something!!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
21.29 BRB
19.19 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Ok, a friend of mine had been trying to breed Northern Pine snakes starting in 1995. He used the typical colubrid approach of introducing the snakes after the first shed and never got anything, not even duds. In Oct of 2000 he moved to Alabama and gave me the adult pair to try and breed them, if successful he wanted 1.2 neonates. So they where in pretty good shape and I hibernated them for 12 weeks and when I took them out just kept them together from the get go, result 7 infertile eggs, well it was a start, the female had never even laid duds. The following season I did the same 12 week thing (average temps hibernaculum 45/50 F. But when I awoke them I also was breeding Everglades Rat snakes that season. Well I fed everyone several times and the rat snake females went into their first shed, I noticed the female pine was not even close to going into a shed cycle, When I started introducing the rat snakes I also started introducing the pine snakes. The rat snakes had their pre egg shed and laid eggs, the pine snake then went into her first shed of the season which turned out to be her pre egg laying shed. results 10 fertile eggs which all hatched, I sent my friend the 1.2 he wanted and the how and what differed from most other colubrids he had already bred in the past. He also kind of fed my ego, when he first gave them to me, he said, if anyone can get these damn snakes to breed you can. Well now he has grown them up and successfully bred them several times now. My current collection has 4 different bloodlines of Northern pines. Took me two seasons to figure out that this northern pine skipped the first shed most colubrids go thru and only had a pre lay shed.

I have breed a lot of different snakes over the years, but these where very rewarding I must say.

The below pictures are of the babies I gave him, all grown up and producing their own babies. I remember busting his chops that I thought his incubation medium was "too wet", well lets just say he has hatched out several clutches regardless of my opinion. He taught me how to fish and I taught him how to breed snakes. He is also VERY good at propagating turtles, something I have never done. So in all, his eggs hatched and the neonates where very healthy, so the "taught" showed the "teacher" a thing or two, BTW I still think that mediums a little too wet, but I can't argue with his results.

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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

My BCI's usually follow the POS rule very closely. I have never noticed any kind of correlation with Rainbow boas but, I also haven't been near as good at recording sheds since I didn't think there was any way to gauge a due date from sheds. I also don't have the numbers of Rainbows that some of you do to get a wider group to compare too.
It'll be interesting to see how close the dates come to your expected due dates. It would be nice to be able to predict babies with some accuracy.

I have only bred BRB's twice and sadly can not find any data on the breedings. But I will be attempting to breed them next season, so I will be sure to be EXTREMELY accurate in my record keeping and post the results.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

Yes, But i have a big window (99 to 118 days). It is hard to gauge the post ovulation shed sometimes, So I used to write down every shed during pregnancy. Having an Ultrasound makes things MUCH EASIER, but doesnt really change the outcome at all. This year i have not kept any shed records. I can get you specifics later if you are interested,

Best wishes...BHH