Reptile & Amphibian Forums

How do some of you feel about self-immunizing?

Well, I'd think that repeated exposure to animal toxins would actually increase one's sensitivity to them....I know this to be the case with bees...I suppose it can be done (i.e. Ross Allen) but quite frankly I've never found much reason to do so unless one handles many snakes daily, as part of research or their profession. For most of us (us being venomous keepers) I'd imagine the risk outweighs any potential rewards....I'd think our time & money better spent on a healthy stock of AV.

-AzAtrox

Agreed. I can only imagine the kind of damage this does to the kidneys. There's also the lovely possibility that you'll never know when your body might react adversely to the foreign proteins, so that next injection may very well be the last.
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Chance Duncan
www.rivervalleyexotics.com

Risks out weigh any benefits. Stock your own antivenom.
Jim Harrison

http://timfriede.com/.

I don't recall the timeframe but I know that over the years it took its toll on Bill Haast in the form of crippling arthritis.

I don't mean this in any kind of derogatory way, but if I were a klutz, I'd consider it or give up venomous altogether. Probably the latter.
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Bill's hands are a direct correlation to a lack of immunity w/ certain snake toxins and a lack of immunity due to these fractions not in the mix.

Let's see if you live that long with milking snakes? SI is why he's still alive.

Hillbilly, keep up with my website and pay special attention to the reference list. This is what the doctors think about SI.

http://timfriede.com

NP

like this...

"An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

There is NO substitute for sound handling and safety protocols...The health risks associated with self-immunization make it impractical and possibly dangerous for "average" keepers...Unless you're planning on milking thousands of snakes a year, you're better off handling these animals appropriately (that is to say as little as possible) and stocking up on antivenom in case an accidental bite occurs. Either that, or give up keeping hots altogether....

Just my .02
-AzAtrox

The answer is in your proverb, here's the cure.http://dnavaccine.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1413

I never said don't be safe! I clearly stated in my above letter that pure injections are dangerous b/c of IgE A.S., which I've had six times(published).

Bridging the gap between primitive vaccinology and DNA vaccinology is the key. If cellular pDNA can be produced with ophidian fractions in humans, many people will benefit from the use of a gene gun. Maybe even the naysayers, but there will be a 100% up charge on the gun due to lack of support, lack of vision, no common sense,etc.

Since the puzzle is now complete(DNA pulled, vector pulled), hopefully we will have a answer this year, or next.

I hate proverbs. My .02

When will your findings be presented to real snakebite doctors at a conference on snakebite.I have not seen any of your work in Toxicon. As a person that actual extracts from snakes for a living and handles thousands a week. If SI was the anwser I would be shooting up every week.
Has the FDA approved your research?
There are researchers working on cloning toxins which means extracting venom will soon not be needed to make an antidote. Also there is a big difference between toxiods and SI with raw venom.
Even with toxiod vaccinces for animals the animals still need antivenom in most bad bites.
Also SI has no effect on tissue damage so good handling/ antivenom is the best anwser.

Jim Harrison

Jim Harrison, Thank you

Jesse

Sunday, March 23, 2003. Posted by Jim Harrsion.

"The FDA is watching you and many others"

"Kids may but your science, I don't." "Neither did NG"

"You are a lawsuit waiting to happen"

"SI is voodoo science, and you are doing it for you, not others"

"This is my business and I've been doing it for a long time before you knew what protein was. You con others, but you can't con me."

Due to this email, my legal council asked me not to have any connection with KRZ, including Jim Harrison. FDA threats and NG not airing is still being pursued. TF

Are you actually suggesting that NG and the FDA think we know everything? I wish we had that much influence. TV would look a lot different than it does now. No more Paris Hilton, ever! lol.
The FDA comes to its own conclusions, I highly doubt we have any influence whatsoever over such a large government institution.

Sorry Kristen, no comment.

> > >"Bill's hands are a direct correlation to a lack of immunity w/ certain snake toxins and a lack of immunity due to these fractions not in the mix."

Dang, one of these days I'll learn not to trust my mem'ry. LOL!!!

Haast was pretty much my idol when I was a teenager in the mid-70's and I did a lot research on him for my HS biology class. My CRS disease has really progressed over the last several years. (CRS = Can't Remember S---)

I looked around your site the other night after reading your post but it didn't have much on it at the time. I'll keep checking on it from time to time, though. This is all Greek to me but I'm interested in hearing, learning more about it.

I'd love to learn more about yours & KRZ's background, experience & opinion on the matter sometime or another. That is, if its possible to share & express these things without a knock-down/drag-out.

One of my learnin' problems would be the language barrier. Ya'll would have to break it back down to the primitive, hillbilly level. For instance: "SI is why he's still alive."

SI? You mean "Sports Illustrated?" LOL! Nah, I'll pick it up, catch on.

Ya'll take care!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Hillbilly, trust me, I'm a bigger hillbilly. The kids and I just got done skinnin' todays small game kills.

Knock-down/Drag-out is the nature of the beast brother, the nature and evolution of vaccinology.

Yes, SI, is more pleasing on the eye, then true SI. Follow my site, it'll be worth it!! But, it's years in the making!

SI has worked 100% for me and I do not think any of you have any practical experiance with immunization at all yet spout out the most stupid garbage.

Plain and simple and FREE!!! the free part would make most jump up and down for joy .

Why do you think i have never used antivenom yet have recived many bites from the many of the top ten and laughed it off.

black mambas death adders coral snakes many types of rattlers water cobras very toxic bla bla bla........

here is the catch you must be inteligent I know that puts a lot of you guys out of biz from the start but then you can always
fall back on a doctor for help.

nat geo filmed it all I milked a mamba and injected every drop not a single problem at all yet a normal would be dead!
Tim milked a monacle cobra and did the same no death.
but then some dirty deal was made and it was covered up.
why? ignorance!

so to all you that say nay to you I say how sad you are!
I will never say a word to any of you as i read about your brush with death sad!

have fun getting killed and having to run to a doctor that thinks your werid and stupid.
then you get in a paper and the whole world knows your werid and careless!

later
hm
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Bud

"the whole world knows your werid and careless!"

Wait a minute...let me get this right....WE'RE the ones that are careless even when YOU claim to have been bitten many times? Something doesn't wash....And as far as your intelligence claim, I believe most RESPONSIBLE hot keepers would agree that it's smarter NOT to get bitten in the first place! See, getting bitten isn't a badge of honor...quite the opposite...it indicates that either a) you made a stupid mistake or b) your handling skills are subpar...and INTELLIGENT keeper knows this...

If it massages your ego to pump yourself full of snake venom then you go right ahead....but don't come on here and insult people's intelligence because they are stressing safe handling techniques and sound safety protocols....that ISN'T very intelligent....

????

For information on KRZ you can google Kentucky Reptile Zoo, Jim Harrison or Kristen Wiley.

Jim Harrison

Good to see your still plugging along! I'm living down here in south Texas, near San Antonio. If you're ever in the area let me know and we'll get together! Email me at brhaco(at)aol(dot)com..

Brad Chambers

Hi Brad,
Was out west for IHS last year. Hope to be out west for the Venom Conference in AZ this Sept. Will be coming thru Texas on my way back. I will send you a email to catch up.

Jim Harrison

Thanks for the tip. I'm not looking to discredit anyone, I just want to seriously review both views and draw my own conlcusion.

Ya'll take care!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.