Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I've got a pair of western hogs. They are probably around 22" in length... Somewhere around there.

Are they at breeding size?

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Mike
KingPin Reptiles Inc.
www.kingpinreptiles.com
^ Updated 5/25

If the one in your hand is the female, then yes I'd say throw them together!

Brad Chambers

What is their weight?? I would go by weight, not length when it comes to hoggies, as well as most snakes.
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Jenea
Guardian Reptiles

"When your memories are bigger than your dreams, you're headed for the grave" Author unknown

"What is their weight?? I would go by weight, not length when it comes to hoggies, as well as most snakes."
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I'd go by neither. In my experience (I've been breeding snakes since 1972), animals that are "ready to breed" (i.e. have sufficient nutritional stores to produce healthy offspring) will attempt to do so, whether we choose to help facilitate them or not. This is why we so often see females produce infertile clutches when not provided with a male. This is very stressful on a female, as infertile clutches are more difficult for her to deposit successfully, and egg binding is a frequent result. Far better to err on the side of caution, and provide her with a male at the proper time. The worst that can happen is that, if she isn't ready, no eggs will result.

Brad Chambers

No, worst case scenerio is that a to small female produces eggs, depletes her body and doesn't recover and dies. This I have witnessed personally. Also, egg binding does not just result from no male being present, but very often from the female being to small (ie. not enough sufficient nutrional stores to produce offspring) This has been documented with various species of snakes. That is why I asked the weight. A 22" snake can weight 100g or 300g. Length at that point is irrelevant, it is about body mass. Pictures can also be very misleading as to the size of an animal because of the way they "puff" up their bodies. So I 100% stand by my question of how much the animal weighs before I would answer the original poster.

I do not question your knowledge in breeding snakes, just your quick answer without any facts about the animal in question other than general length and a possible pic.
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Jenea
Guardian Reptiles

"When your memories are bigger than your dreams, you're headed for the grave" Author unknown

No offense taken-but it's obvious from the pic that the snake is NOT underweight (and remember, I advised that he put the two together IF that animal was the female). And your assumption that she will be discouraged from breeding by withholding access to a male is erroneous. If she has sufficient stores to produce eggs, she probably will. And if she does, without access to a male, then disaster could result. The reproductive drive is a matter of life and death to snakes, in fact scarcely less so than the food drive, and a ripe wild female will seldom or never NOT have access to a willing male. You deprive her of one in captivity at both of your peril (especially hers).

You mentioned cases you have observed in which underweight females have been bred and died subsequently. I find that curious-in 30 years of snake breeding, and watching others in the same activity, I don't recall ever seeing a sure case of that. What I HAVE seen is many cases of herpers failing to adequately SUPPORT their animals nutritionally both before and after mating. There is so much talk about the "refusal to feed" of gravid females that those less experienced often feel justified in withholding all food to gravid females, or prematurely withdrawing food. Many females will indeed refuse normal sized meals soon after becoming gravid. It's up to the keeper to provide smaller meals (in both size and quantity) at this time, in order to nutritionally support their animals without overtaxing their digestive system or interfering with egg development. My females typically continue feeding up to a week or two before deposition.

A female who is truly undernourished and not ready for breeding will simply not breed. Don't try to second guess nature-feed your animals well and intelligently, and put them together.

Brad Chambers

I feed my gravid females a smaller meal dusted with vitamins twice a week. And the personal experience was my own. I too am not a novice. I have also had the unfortunate experiance of what happens when the female is not willing , but the male is raring to go. In this instance, the male managed to lock up, and the female ripped herself free. Both required minor vet attention, and the female required antibiotics and a year off the breeding cycle. It is still unsure if she will produce or not since that occurance.

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Jenea
Guardian Reptiles

"When your memories are bigger than your dreams, you're headed for the grave" Author unknown

I've seen this myself, and for some reason a little blood after copulation seems especially common in hognose. I attribute it to the size disparity between male and female hogs, which allows a disturbed or nervous female to pretty much drag a male with embedded hemipene around at will..I will admit that your case is pretty extreme!

Brad Chambers