Reptile & Amphibian Forums

... well, instead of just having the new enclosure in the basement (pouring the cement next thursday with any luck!) Ive decided to cover the floors with FRP to protect the carpet, seal the edges with heavy grade duct tape, setting up plywood against the walls to protect the drywall and we're gonna work a gate of some sort for access.

Basically, the Niles just gonna have my entire basement to himself. Can wander around, give me alot more room to provide water, can look out the sliding glass window (Im thinking if I keep the hanging blinds shut- considering he dosnt somehow try to climb and tear them down, that any sunlight coming through the glass shouldnt be a big problem... would you agree?), and all kindsa other fun stuff.

What im looking for atm is suggestions as to what I should do with the remaining space. Hes already going to have a 9'long x 5' wide x 2'tall(approx) of substrate for burrowing. Im not going to put substrate everywhere, though it would be nice, because i cant risk damaging the carpet too much.

Id like to add some sort of plants, if only for appearances. Any suggestions on live plant species that might surive? Im thinking some tougher ferns and maybe some ivy or other vine like plant.

Id really like any ideas for some sort of large, climbable tree- im sure itd cost out the arse, but I could save for abit and get something really cool for him to climb on, while at hte same time making his "room" look really great. Hes shown interest in live plants before... albeit he prefered to burrow into their roots, lol

Thoughts appreciated

Hello Nile,
I like your interest in providing the maximum space for your Nile that you possibly can offer... Just be sure that it all makes sense in the end as far as the humidity, heat, all around environmental factor- can be very destructive when the African river side is turned loose in your basement- but you are thinking in the right direction... I'm interested to see how this pans out. I would check out greenhouse materials if I were you. Best to you- Mike

Hi Nile Keeper, If you are going to go through all that and expect the carpet to remain in tact, think again. Why not build a subfloor of 2x4 and 3/4 tung and groove on top of the floor. Ply wood the walls as you said and get a pond liner to cover the floors and walls. Lay wonder board on top of the floor, covering the whole thing so your gritter wont dig through the liner. In other words make a pond in your basement only fill it with dirt instead of water. This way you can be certain the rug and the walls won't get wet. Paint the walls with some good exterior paint above the plywood.

Roger

"In other words make a pond in your basement only fill it with dirt instead of water. This way you can be certain the rug and the walls won't get wet. Paint the walls with some good exterior paint above the plywood."

Thats basically what the enclosure (approx 9'long x 5' wide x 2'tall of substrate) is for- thats going to be his main home base, but from there he will have access to explore.

In no way am I turning the entire basement into a big dirt pile- just wont go over with the landlord, or itd be done by now, carpet torn up and done with, lol

I think, and I might be wrong here, that giving him the extra space just to move around will help him feel less cramped, but I cant turn my basement into an african river bank, lol

"...you are going to go through all that and expect the carpet to remain in tact, think again. Why not build a subfloor of 2x4 and 3/4 tung and groove on top of the floor. Ply wood the walls as you said and get a pond liner to cover the floors and walls. Lay wonder board on top of the floor, covering the whole thing so your gritter wont dig through the liner."

How bout this- .5 to 1 inch plywood over the carpeted areas, with a pond liner over the ply and with FRP covering the liner?

Can monitors dig through the FRP pretty easily or what? Cause trust me- my dads a large scale duct tape salesman and the stuff Im using to seal the cracks is water/heat/cold proof, nearly impossible to cut with a sharp edge ( i sat for 20 mins with a razor blade trying to work out if a monitors claws could possibly slice this stuff, and unless my lizard suddenly grows Ginsu-knife claws, I cant see him managing it) and once stuck to a surface becomes nearly impossible to remove. It WILL seal out all moisture, if used correctly. Stuff is amazing, apperantly attaches itself on the atomic level to the surface, which makes it really hard to remove once attached and makes it great for sealing cracks against water (hopefully im not releasing classified info here, but this stuff is used on US military submarines- its quality stuff! lol)

Im not familiar with a few terms though sid, could explain abit better?

"and 3/4 tung "

"Lay wonder board on"

Thanks much man.

Appreciate the help folks.

monitors can make quick work of duct tape. Trust me.

Also the design of monitor claws is the prototype for a rug knife. Cheers

Tung and groove plywood, Look it up or something. Wonder board is like a sheet of concrete plywood. Thats the best way I know how to explain it. It comes in 3' x 5' or 4' x 8' sheets and also 1/4" 1/2" or 5/8" thicknesses.

Hrm... interesting...

Ill look into it tomorrow.

Do I have this right, your intending to make a cage in the basement. The basement has a rug floor. You do not want to ruin the rug. Is that right?

Is the floor of the basement concrete? If so, have the rug taken up, it can be replaced later. Having that done, or doing it yourself is very easy and inexpensive. I am sure it will be less then half the price of all the junk your thinking on doing. And those things will not work anyway. A rug under that will be ruined, you will end up replacing it anyway. Pull it up and store it away, simple, easy. Cheers

For that matter, since it has carpet would it be safe to assume that its framed in and dry walled? Heck, just gut the dang thing and away you go.

Roger

You guys seem to be ignoring something Ive said from the start: IM RENTING! lol

I cant just rip up the carpet (not rug mind you)- landlord aint gonna have that. Sure as hell cant gut the basement. Thats not how it works man. If you own your own place, youre lucky. IM young, and not in a position to do that.

I dont have a problem replacing the carpet when I leave, and If i make it look like im doing my best to protect it, the landlord is a-ok. I just have to act like im taking actions to protecting it... and hell, who knows. Personally, I dont think Ill have a problem with it, but you guys know better.

The drywall, and yes, its drywalled, will be protected. Im basically gonna build a room within a room in my basement, ya know what I mean? And the animal will have its enclosure in this area, but will have access to the rest of said "room", see what im getting at?

I cant alter the property really in any way (though, if i DAMAGE it, seemingly without trying to, the landlord wont know and ill have to pay for the carpet), but I can build something in the basement to house this thing if I can do so without mucking it up too much.

I am not forgetting. You are attempting or thinking about doing something. Renting or not, does not matter. If you cover the rug, it will indeed ruin it. Then you will be paying to replace the damage. If you remove it, all you will need to do when you move is put it back.

I have attempted many ways to water proof a monitor cage and it takes a full on approach. Not sheets of anything and duct tape.

You may not realize how much water you will need. If you are PERFECT it may work, but we are not perfect and all you need to do is make a small mistake. Like add a little to much water or god forbid, you leave it on and go away.

A few years ago, there was a young fella that made a nice modular cage for his blackthroats. It all lots of substrate, logs etc. I believe it worked well. He even moved it once. Then he got rid of them.

There is a point to this, IF your renting, do not attempt to keep monitors that are beyond your ability to keep. Its hard and a lot of work. You can cause lots of damage to a house. You could indeed keep a smaller monitor very well and do the things you think are good. But a nile, and thousands of pounds of dirt and lots of water. hahahahahahahahahahahaha In reality, its not going to happen and if it does, not for long. How many times a year are you going to replace several tons of dirt??????

To me, you do not understand the amount of work, and doing it for decades(if you actually do a good job, they do live for several decades). How about just ten years, or five years???? You must learn to manage the work if your going to stay at it.

I understand you want to, but wanting and doing for long periods are two different things. Cheers

Well, heres how I look at it:

I plan on being here the next 4 years hopefully, maybe alil less/more depending on a few variables. Landlord said hes fine with renewing the lease as long as I want to stay. At LEAST once a year I estimate, this guy is gonna have to come in for whatever reason- he doubles as handyman, which means before I can call a professional, I have to ring this guy up and let him see if he can fix it himself- honestly, its a pain in my ass, but thats how he likes it and I cant complain. I have no problem staying where I am, and because of school and personal matters, I cant really see myself going anywhere for quite awhile.

So thats, lets say, 3.5 years... Im gonna take a look at what Hillbilly said, and if its glued down Ill likely remove it (hows that work exactly HillB? And how can you tell the dif? I have someone helping me, but they arent exactly here to check these things atm, lol).

But honestly, maybe im not being clear enough here- my landlord is a nice guy; but hes not altogether there. Hes the sort of person that, taking offense that I would want to rip up his carpet, might say no and there would be serious problems if i did it anyway (ie, me being homeless). However, hes not the sort of guy to be smart enough to realize that something might be DAMAGING his carpet- especially if it looks like the person doing it is being careful do protect said carpet... you get what im saying here? Itll be a greater cost, but Id rather risk paying that monetary cost 3-4 years down the road when I move out, rather than being forced to move out NOW because I wanted to remove the carpet, lol

There is a point to this, IF your renting, do not attempt to keep monitors that are beyond your ability to keep. Its hard and a lot of work. You can cause lots of damage to a house. You could indeed keep a smaller monitor very well and do the things you think are good. But a nile, and thousands of pounds of dirt and lots of water. hahahahahahahahahahahaha In reality, its not going to happen and if it does, not for long. How many times a year are you going to replace several tons of dirt??????

Alotta people rent man, and alotta people wouldnt be willing to go to the lengths Ive already gone to in order to locate a rentable place that suits me and is reptile friendly. In my area, surprisingly, reptiles are looked WAY down upon- most places i looked at, even the ones that said 'pets ok' said NO to reptiles of any kind; even when I started by asking about whether my geckos would be ok. The answer was always "I dont want them escaping into my house." , "They are gross.", or "I just dont like them." That situation made finding this place a God-send, and Im very glad I found it. The fact that the man may not be willing to let me gut his basement totally dosnt really say ill of him if you ask me. This just has to be done in a certain manner, thats all.

I didnt go out and buy this thing in a pet store like a jackass, nor did I buy it at a show or something thinking "oh, I can pull it off"- it was pawned off on me, as Ive stated in the past. The guy wasnt going to give it to anyone else, and he sure as hell wasnt going to do anything for it himself, so I took it- couldnt find anyone that sounded like theyd done their homework even alittle(not to mention nobody was willing to pay a $40 adoption fee, and if you cant pay that, well... you dont have enough income for a pet, sorry, thats my outlook), so I did the best I could with what I had. At the time, what I had was VERY limited. Things have changed drastically, and now I have an area large enough to realistically work with in terms of providing this animal room to grow to its full potential.

The last thing I REALLY want living with me is a land crocodile, but hes amazing to watch and has grown on me quite abit in the time ive had him in my care.

Absolutely the WORST scenario? I have to give him up. At this point, 3-4 years down the line when this thing is massive... what am I gonna do, right? No worries- my brother has large iguanas and has already stated hed be willing to take the animal, at least till he can find it a better home. And if, for some God forsaken reason he should fall through, a close friend of mine that lives in southern california has expressed interest in him, especially if he is extremely large, as he wants a large show-piece animal to build a custom indoor-outdoor enclosure around- he has his own home fully paid off and it would be no problem for him to house the animal, even at its max possible length/size (lets say, in this case, 8' and bulky- just for kicks). Plus, this fella held my animal in his hands within the first week of me having it, and watched it grow progressively throughout the time i lived in socal- he cares as much about it personally as I do, and I have no doubts about the care he would offer (top notch all the way.).

Youre right, I COULD indeed keep a smaller monitor; I hope to infact at some point in the future, ackies being my hopeful next project a long way down the line, when what I have now it completely stable....but Ive already invested so much, both monetarily AND emotionally(i didnt used to be a pet person), and Im still willing to move forward, at my own expense.

thousands of pounds of dirt is like 2, 3 truck fulls man... Ive been doing landscaping on and off since I was 15- a few days with a shovel and a wheel barrow aint no big thing. Ive worked 2 weeks straight at a time, everyday up at 8 and working by 9, doing nothing ALL day but moving big piles of mulch from the road into mulch beds by shovel and barrow; only to have a dump truck drop another ton in front of us. The work you're talking about here is like, 1-2 days work for me in said conditions, and THAT sort of work isnt a problem in the least (the construction style stuff though, Im simply in the dark about).

Especially if its only, I dunno, what would the appropriate amount of time to change that much substrate be Frank? I mean, obviously its going to have alotta variables, but what would you think? I cant see it being more than, 4-6 months? Maybe(prolly) more? Psh! Thats nothing! I used to do the work I stated above in shifts every other 2 week periods for entire summers; you're sore when its over, but you get it done. Monetarily, again, nothing of concern here.

As far as water goes... well, how would you do the water? I was going to incorporate it partially into the enclosure, essentially a concrete square like 5'wide x 3' long x 2' deep. Dont worry about the construction, just in terms of SPACE...

Is that enough, or just a waste of time? If it IS just a waste of time, what would be the alternatives? Something like a stock tub? Or some other kind of livestock water/feeding aparatus?- with access via rocks or logs or plywood planks or...? Im just thinking of what MY mind would come to- im sure you have a better suggestion, so Ill leave it at that.

As far as it not happening for long... well, I cant really say anything about that, cant read the future just yet, lol

For as far ahead as I personally can see, Ill be right where I am, doing what Im doing, trying to get alil smarter. Dosnt seem to me to be any reason I cant accomodate this animal happily for at least the next few years of his life- albeit may require some strange doings on my part, lol

At the very least, with any luck, I can get him to a point where he will be healthy and content enough to be able to handle a move when/if the time comes.

honestly, that laughin wasnt needed man- you made a valueable point: What im doing is the exact opposite of what you SHOULD do.... regardless though, Im going to do it.

Now, you can sit there and laugh at me for trying, tell me how im going to fail.... or you can try alil harder to give me a serious idea as to what im looking at here. Ive given you perameters, but Im sure you have more questions, so shoot.

I need input, design ideas, anything you can offer. Help me do what needs to be done in this instance, and do it right. Maybe when I post pics of the finished product, you can be happy you helped think it up.

Things to note:
-carpet will be removed if such a thing is possible; though total replacement is an acceptable cost down the road

-the STRUCTURE cannot be altered, by which I mean I cant actually attach anything permanent to the floors (ie, concrete)... this makes things harder, but my contractor friend assures me we can do it with some time and thought. basically, im thinking of building a completely seperate room within the room, including a seconard floor (likely made of a layered combo of plywood/FRP/Hardibacker/layer of 2x4's...?), and feedback/suggestions on the construction/design of said room would be really helpful (though youve already offered quite abit).

-the landlord: nice guy, not totally mentally sound; dosnt like the idea of something he spent time working on being outright destroyed, but likely isnt swift enough to notice damage being done over long periods of time

-the design here is basically working to provide the best suiteable environment for the animal, in this case a still quickly growing Nile monitor, while at the same time doing the best possible job at protecting the house (for both monetary reasons, as well as said landlord situation).

Also, Thanks to those who have offered their input thus far.

and read it in three and 1/2 years. I bet you will say, who wrote that???? Good luck and cheers

Well, 3.5 years ago, had I written down where I thought id be 3.5 years from then..... itd be a description reading above, only chances are I wouldnt own a freakin Nile monitor.

Maybe you coast through life not knowing whats happening next year or 2 down the road, maybe many do, but personally I tend to plan things out ahead of time.

And even if I dont- the absolute worst possible scenario for me right now (and Im talking major deaths in my family, serious personal injury/sickness, massive monetary loss AND, for the sake of saying it, eviction) would be that I move into my fathers house- which is twice the size of my place! Im a college kid man- my focus is getting my education underway and, eventually, completed- THEN I can start worrying about moving, and what Im going to do with my animal in the meantime.

I just spent 2 years in california and, being a kid that grew up in Pennsylvania all my life, it pretty much filled the bill as far as "sowing the wild oats" goes. Im not going to be moving anywhere suddenly, Im not going to suddenly go broke, Im not going to suddenly be homeless, and Im not suddenly going to do coke...lol. My future is pretty stable, even if above worst case scenario occured.

Basically, what Im trying to say here is, I dont see anything in future thats going to make me stop being interested in this animal- im not some farking highschool kid; I understand responsibility or I wouldnt make my rent each month.

I have a duty to provide for this animal if Im going to attempt to keep it.

You list work as a problem, I tell you work dosnt scare me in the least.
You list time as a factor, I tell you Ive got all the time in the world.
You tell me Im going to get bored with my animal, I tell you Ive had this thing for the latt 2 years and hes been a better companion to me in a cage than 95% of his human competition.

You can disbelieve me all you want- In 3.5 years, God willing, Ill be able to look back on this post (which I did print by the way, just for the hell of it) and say ' well, that went well, now didnt it Frank?'.

Still, could you please answer the previous questions? I keep pushing back the deadline on getting this thing started/done and it needs to be done now- my animal needs this space and I feel horrid everyday that he isnt in the quarters that he deserves.

You can disbelieve me all you want- In 3.5 years, God willing, Ill be able to look back on this post (which I did print by the way, just for the hell of it) and say ' well, that went well, now didnt it Frank?'.

At which point you can say "Well, first you came on saying the thing collapsed on you.... then you said you left the water on and flooded your basement, almost letting your water-friendly monitor go for a swim down your street.... THEN you said the landlord came in when you werent home and the monitor attempted to mount him.... and FINALLY, you can say, on top of all that, you somehow managed to keep that thing without you or it getting yourselves killed, so I suppose you could call that 'going well'. From the pictures Ive seen, it looks healthy.... but please, no more pics of you.... my stomach can only take so much abuse. Cheers."

Then again, thats an extremely optimistic statemtnt, but its something to shoot for, lol

Sorry, sport, for just now replying but I had to dig thru a lot of crap to find this thread.

Carpet in business offices, Dr's offices, etc..., is not soft/cushiony. That is glued down.

Carpet in nearly all residential buildings (apartments, houses) is soft/cushiony. That is stretched in, over padding.

If you're not sure by feel, the easiest way to tell if carpet is glued down or stretched in is to get a pair of pliers, go into a corner of the room and grab the carpet's fibers and pull the corner of the carpet straight up and back a little so you can see underneath it.

Make sure you get a good grip on the fibers, grabbing them down close to the backing, and don't just yank up on it. Some carpet's fibers are more sensitive than others and can unravel on you. Just pay attention as you slowly pull up & then back and you'll be fine.

You only need to pull up a few inches and it can easily be tucked back in screwdriver or something.

"...my landlord is a nice guy; but hes not altogether there..."

Ahh, another hillbilly, eh? Tell 'em I said "Howdy!" We's might even be kin. Most of us are, ya know.

"Hes the sort of person that, taking offense that I would want to rip up his carpet, might say no and there would be serious problems if i did it anyway (ie, me being homeless). However, hes not the sort of guy to be smart enough to realize that something might be DAMAGING his carpet..."

You've got a good point there. How about I let you make that decision. Ha! As a floorcovering installer, taking up the carpet doesn't/wouldn't bother me. However, if I didn't know what I do about it, seeing the floor covered with something might be more acceptable than seeing my carpet rolled up in the corner.

One other concern I have for you & your plans. I don't know what the climate's like there but most basements here in the southern part of the Appalachians have moisture problems that require dehumidifiers.

What's gonna happen when you put a large body of water in a room that's inside of an already humid room? As long as the monitor's room (enclosure) is sealed good it may not be a problem. If you're not running a dehumidifier in there already you'll probably be fine.

If you post anymore Qs for me and I don't reply within several hrs, click my name & fire me an e-mail or post the Q directly under one of my posts so I'll get a notification.

Catch ya later!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

I've been installing floorcovering for the last 16 yrs so maybe I can help shed some light on some of the things mentioned.

I'll start out with the bottom line:
FR's right, your best bet probably would be to take the carpet up. I say "probably" because there are some factors that need to be considered.

If the carpet is stretched in instead of glued down, you're gonna run into the problem of exposed tackstrip around the walls. As far as appearance goes, I think all of us could deal with it without a problem, its just whether or not there's any potential for the monitor getting pricked by it.

You can't take the tackstrip up without causing the concrete to come up in big chips with it. (Well, you can, but, trust me, you ain't gonna want to do that.) This will create major problems reinstalling tackstrip & carpet.

If carpet is glued down, its a piece of cake. Roll it up, set it to the side & have at it.

Going over the carpet with heavy materials can ruin carpet in itself. If its stretched in the weight will compress the padding so much & for so long that it most likely will lose its memory (not decompressing completely).

It could very well also cause the yarn in the crpet to lose its memory. Unless the carpet was brand new when you moved in, I imagine it had crush marks in it from beds, dressers, etc... Sometimes they come out, sometimes they don't. The longer the weight's on it, the less likely the carpet/pad will rebound.

I'm having a hard time figuring out how you'll support the walls of the enclosure without securing to an existing wall, floor, or something else stationary. You might already have that figured out & you don't have to explain it to me, I'm just trying to help you think things thru.

The "Wonderboard" "sid" mentioned earlier is the same thing as "Durock." They're bascially the same thing, different manufacturers. They're like wood particleboard except they're made of particles of concrete instead of wood.

There's another similar product called Hardibacker. This is what I would use if I was set on going over the carpet. It's sturdier and won't break down as easy as Durock/Wonderboard. And the only way Durock/Wonderboard would break down is if it flexed a lot (as if in walking on it fairly often).

The Wonderboard, Durock & Hardibacker boards are "underlayment" used for installing ceramic tile.

Here's a link to product listing & details about Durock & Hardibacker: Underlayment

FRP goes for about $30 per 4 x 8 sheet. That's 94 cents per sq. ft.

The Durock & Hardibacker goes for about $11 per 3 x 5 sheet. That's 73 cents per sq ft. The thinner Durock (5/16 inch) is about $9 per 3 x 5 sheet, equal to 60 cents per sq. ft.

If your landlord doesn't inspect your house every now & then, I'd take up the carpet. It'll save you a decent chunk of change to have it reinstalled versus paying for new carpet and then having it installed. For a 12 x 12 room you're looking at aprox $75 to have it reinstalled, versus, aprox $200 (very conservative figure) for replacement.

Don't you just love these building decisions?

Hang in there!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Sorry about that! The underlayment link was to a search I did on Lowes.com. Here's how to view what I was trying to show:

Click this link: www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productSection&catalogId=15
Scroll down to the "Building Products" section and click "Underlayment & Backerboard." You'll get a prompt for your zip code so you'll be able to see whether or not your local store has those items.

Again, I apologize.

Later!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.