Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'VE BEEN ONLINE LOOKING AT PICTURES OF HYBRID/MORPHS AND THINK THEY'RE AWESOME...I WOULD LOVE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THEM FROM ANYONE THAT HAS TIME TO EXPLAIN....

I'VE NOTICED THAT EACH HYBRID IS A MORPH OF ANOTHER HYBRID SO HOW EXACTLY DID THIS START?

WHY IS IT SO CONTERVSIAL?

OF COURSE AFTER LEARNING MORE ABOUT THE BREEDING PROCESS, HOW HARD WOULD IT BE TO ACTUALLY PRODUCE SNAKES LIKE THESE?

THANKS

...two words, "caps lock".

Not all hybrids are crosses of hybrids. Many of the hybrids produced today are made the same way the first ones were. You trick two snakes of different species to do the mattress mambo.

main trick to producing hybrids is having a pair of each type of snake so that you can get them excited with a member of the opposite sex from their species then you seperate the snakes before they lock up and throw one from each pair together and hope they are still so horny that they mate even though it is a different species.

Sean.

by many people because they think the resulting offspring are unnatural ( not occurring in nature ). It also is believed by some to pollute the genetic integrity of the animals, especially if somehow they are inadvertently or possibly purposely bred into a "pure" line of snakes. Plus, similar looking animals being hybridized can create progeny that are very hard to distinguish from the "pure form" For example, Indian and Burmese Pythons can create offspring that look like either form, well, bad example, because these are intergrades, but you get the point. I personally enjoy the scientific ramifications off hybrids and how it questions systematic's in general. A snake may end up being just that "a snake". As long as properly represented, people should be able to play "god" if they wish. Almost ALL snakes in the "Herpetoculture circle" are not suited for utilization in the "species survival plan" any way, if people in this hobby think they are breeding future populations that will someday be released into the wild, I can safely say 99 % would be considered unsuitable based on their genetic diversity alone, even with no "hybrids" being created. Too much line breeding and other practices going on that would make them unsuitable. If you believe this information to be inaccurate, please get someone who is charge, yes in charge, of making the "scientific decisions" in choosing animals for such a program that is sanctioned by the government and the scientific body. I am correct, of this I am certain!!!! So most arguments against hybrids I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND, but all in all, at this point in time, are basically redundant, this is because the people who make the decisions have already considered the herpetoculture hobbies resulting offspring, unsuitable for reintroduction into the wild. Most certainly, the creation of hybrids puts an even larger "black eye" on the herpetocultural community in the eyes of the scientific community ( you know, the " REAL EXPERTS OF KNOWLEDGE AND POWER " )

BTW I am Both PRO & Anti hybrid, go figure!!!!!!!!!

But let's say some day I want to breed a "this" to a "that" , that is MY right to do so, so therefore, it is your right to do so as far as I am concerned, but one thing, please make it more interesting than a Burmese to an African Rock, and no more carpondros, although VERY interesting I must admit, but when they mature they look like CRAP, if one could figure a way to make them keep their neonate coloration as adults, well then SIGN ME UP !!!!!!!!!!
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

Pro Hybrid = Ball X Woma

( just too [Bleeping] AWESOME )

BY far the best to date!!!!! Better than Bateater's to me!!!

That Kevin ( Satan ) has lived up to his vernacular name on this one, sooo wicked-evil looking, it's a matter of course that a guy named SATAN Creates the CROSS ( evil grin, irony intended )

Anti Hybrid = Ball X Angolan

( similar phenotypes & Angolan is an endangered species, which should be avoided, oh yeah, the science department cannot use that specimen anyway even before the MAD SCIENTISTS dared play God )

Triple Dog Dare Ya, to try giving me an Ball/Angolan Hybrid....you won't even see it leave your hands!!!!!!!!!! and well, since someone "polluted" the Angolans genetic integrity already, I will try "not" breeding it to a BURM, maybe back to a ball, so I can get the "approval" of the scientific and Herpetologic communities.

COMPLETE & Utterly contradicatory.....The Albino Rock X Burms Hybrid. I see why some frown upon Hybrids.

I like the anti-hybrid community being as adamant as they are. Even though our " pure" snakes ( in general ) are not suitable for reintroduction's into the wild, their , "pure line status" must be protected from any such "pollutants" and keep hybridization AS " a rare occurrences in Herpetoculture" ( UNLESS YOUR NAME IS SATAN ) By "a rare occurrence" I mean the ratio of "Purists" to "Pro hybrid types who are successful in their breeding trials"

I think the balance of the "Purists" to "Hybridizers" will ensure there are always, herpetoculturally speaking, "pure gene" lines represented in the captive environment.

I would NEVER want to sway an Anti-Hybrid herpetoculturists to the side of a Pro-Hybrid herpetoculturists. The more "Purists" the better, but I can't see one existing without the other in his "Hobby". So there will always be "pure lines" and "hybrid lines" as long as the one continues to out weigh the other.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

Heya Frank,

since you seem to be fairly well versed on the issues of hybridization as well as the details of reintroduction projects and endangered animals hopefully you can clear something up for me.

Do you know the wild pop status of hogg island boa's?
-I've heard conflicting comments on their existence in the wild today.

How prevalent were they hybridized and can one really tell if one is true stock(in a genetic sense)?
-I've heard they were heavily hybridized for awhile but never good info from credible sources and never whether those offspring were used for non-hogg boa projects or used to bring in morphs to the hogg's.

Is there enough genetic diversity out there for repopulation(if needed) and what is it's endangered/protected status?

If it is endangered is there any long term options for the species?

Sorry for the mega question post. Just been meaning to get the straight story on these boas and you sounded like you'd be a good one to ask.

Sean.

I am sorry, I have no more info than you seem to already have. Their status in the wild is hard info to obtain, it must be out there on the web, I just cannot seem to find it. If and when I do I will post for you. I found a page saying they are extinct in the wild, but since it is a personal web site the info can not be taken to heart. A biological institutions page would be more appropriate.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

for the quick response. Yeah those are the same issues I ran into when I was looking into them as a possible second boa project down the line.

Definitely let me know if you come across something that seems reliable.

Sean.

...
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

There's a study in progress since 2005 where approx 180 animals
have been pit tagged. So reports of thier demise were a BIT premature LOL. While looking for them, they averaged 1 snake per day.

Horridus

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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

is hybrid different than morph?

what I have mainly been looking at are the ball pythons morphs..
are these different than hybrids?

A hybrid is a cross between two different kinds of animals, like a horse and zebra, they are closely related enough to produce viable offspring. Morphs are all the different color and pattern anomalies a particular animal carries in it's genotype and or phenotype. So Ball python morphs plainly translates as one species, Python regius, and all the color and or patterns the specie comes in.

Like...

Albino Ball
Spider Ball
albino spider Ball
Anery Ball
Snow Ball
There are a ton of different ones available

ETC.........
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

O, Because this is really what I'm interested in...I assume it doesn't carry the same controversy that the hybrid breeding does...?
Now is there a site that might explain some of the morphing and what not in laymens terms ?
I don't fully understand the recessive,codominant and het., and I would like to read more on that...

Well, it is not considered controversial by many people, but the amount of inbreeding going on with Ball Python morphs is quite controversial in my opinion. I suggest picking up a book called The more complete ball python by kevin at Nerds
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

not sure what nerds is...would barnes and nobles have it or should i order it online?

nerd is New England Reptile Distributors. Try beanfarm.com
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research

I have 2 females a blood and a ball...I was thinking of getting a male sometime down the road and making some pretty babies....

If I'm correct, blood x ball = super ball , right?

So I'm hoping to be able to get a morph ball but not sure what kind I should go for...I like the bumble bee's and I also think a high orange albino would throw some pretty ones but again I am not sure how the gene thing all works and what exactly I would get...

that is correct. It's been done a few times.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts
Roberts' Realm Of Reptile Research