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I caught this small male under a sheet of plywood today. I am in Southern Maryland with most of Team ECC's Inner Circle and we are doing well. Ryan Travis also caught an Eastern King tonight (will post pic's of her later).
Here is the male I caught this morning (oh yeah, he does have RED on his sides DOH!!!) -

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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

a LOT of baby easterns have some variation of red in em. They lose it as adults. It's meaningless.

Those other snakes have some goini influence, whether recent or distant. Goini isn't even valid.

Sheesh. I thought everyone knew that and I've only been catching easterns for 20 years....

Chris

Chris,

???

What is the meaining of this?

I am merely pointing out that some Easterns are born with red in their pattern and it does not mean that they are part Goini.

What do you want?
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

Personally I thought you were just pointing out that this population too had some red in it as younger animals. I never made the connection about the goini, I mean why would anyone rashional bring up or suggest goini in the context of wc thin banded easterns from MD? From your last, guess I was wrong. Funny too that you should jump Chris and not say anything about Zee making the same connection. Must be an inner circle thing. In any case, nice little kings. Last time I was in southern MD I found a ton of them. Though I never tire of seeing nice easterns in the wild finding that illusive tri color would have been nice!

Tony,

I think that somebody else made the remark that baby Eastern Kings did NOT have red in the bands. My post was merely to show actual results from pure wild baby Eastern Kings. I don't think I jumped Chris, I think that actually it is the other way around.

Let me ask you this - the last time you collected OBK's on Hatteras (which I have heard from reliable sources that you do) did any of the babies from that locale have any red in their bands????
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

That I know how to fine OBX kings under natural conditions is no secret so no beans spilled there. I just wish I could do it more often. There is a very narrow time and temp situation when they are quite obvious. Interesting question about the red and I wish I had an answer but I never found a neonate or juvenile small enough to still be expressing the red. I don’t think they start exhibiting the behavior that allows me to fine them till they are good sized adults otherwise they’d be gull fodder.

And yes I would say that Chris jumped you first but from your response it would seem that he was on track. The trifling amount of red seen in easterns from the heart of their range should in no way be used to discount possible goini influence in southern GA populations. That kind of reasoning could get you a gig on Fox News. To have and be aware of a bias is one thing, to wallow in it is another.

Tony,

This is a trifling waste of time BUT - let me just explain WHY I referenced the RED on the flanks of that baby Eastern:

Apparently there was another argument in this forum in which one poster claimed that pure-bred (i.e. un-hybridized) Eastern Kingsnakes are not born with any red in their coloration. Since the snake I just caught does have red I believed it was appropriate to catalog the info in here.

You and Chris then "jumped" me. Actually, I think that your recent distaste for my postings has made you "trigger happy" when it comes to anything I post - so you automatically take the opposing view.

Have a good memorial day and happy herping.
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

Peter,

Your posts are wrong on so many levels. First I don’t care what you do or what you believe. It’s none of my business. But I happen to believe in what you are doing in regards to locality specific breeding.. Its when you bring up things that others are doing as wrong is when I voice my opinion to you (see you post above dated May 28). I am not sure whether you realize how you come across or if you are just so fervent in your way is the way others should do things, or both. I know you are a nice guy in person and if we meet I would probably want to go out and have a beer with you at the expo. But for keeping the peace here you should really drop things that are two weeks old that got under you skin. No need to rehash everything and just be more polite in your posts and realize your choleric personality can get the best of you.
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"Yeah ya told me, and ya wrote it down too. But how the hell am I supposed to remember!"

WTG Pete. Your making it look rather routine my friend. They are some beauties.

Steve

>>I caught this small male under a sheet of plywood today. I am in Southern Maryland with most of Team ECC's Inner Circle and we are doing well. Ryan Travis also caught an Eastern King tonight (will post pic's of her later).
Here is the male I caught this morning (oh yeah, he does have RED on his sides DOH!!!)
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SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS

That's it!! I'm coming to southern Maryland. I have spent hours laying out pick up truck loads of tin in new sites this year and so far...NOTHING!! Must be fun to keep finding them though!! At least I'll some established tin sites in a few years hopefully.

That is the secret to tin, let it age, what you set out this year is for(possibly) next year or the following year.IMHO.
Todd Hughes

Not to dicredit your experience, but I have found Easterns under plywood that had only been put down a month before. The grass under these sheets of plywood had just begun to turn brown.
-Phil

Not dicrediting my experience at all, as I have none with easterns, just stating my experience in general with plywood. Mine has been the opposite with splendida and holbrooki in Texas, with the next season being the best, as I feel it has trapped a nice moisture barrier and allowed rodents time to move in, etc. IMHO!
Todd Hughes

Ralph, actually - I have had FAR better success finding stuff under plywood boards. I think that snakes stay under that type of cover more than tin.

It is probably better to leave it alone and let it settle but how can anyone know for sure? Just because people find snakes under tin that has settled for a long time does not mean that a snake will not use a fresh piece if it crosses paths with the new piece of tin at the right moment.
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

I was wondering about that. Especially when it gets really hot out. I guess plywood would hold more moisture and keep cooler temps underneath than tin would.

I guess that is it - Just from my experience the plywood kills all of the grass, the rodents move in and tunnel, and then the snakes are right behind them.

Good luck!!!
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

Since it has red in it....!!! It's gotta be a Maryland Eastern x Goini!!! It just has to be!!! Ok, Ok, I know better than that - but certain other folks don't believe in pure Easterns with a little red/orange in them.... But I have seen it occur in many different states myself.... Oh well, what do I know....

BOOWAAHAAHAAHAAHAA!!!!!

Very nice finds Peter - looks like you've got the hang of this (field herpin' thing),
Zee
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"I am an expert on everything, but I know so little and have so much to learn!" -Carsten "Zee" Zoldy-

Zee - You need to come up here next Spring to herp with us. I am probably "done" for the rest of the Summer since my wife is due with our third baby in a couple of weeks...

I have 2.2 unrelated wild-caught Calvert County, MD Kings (3 of which I found in the last week). Nothing finer than going into the field and getting your own breeding stock, eh?
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

Peter, I think you should give your wife the season off next year, as 3 in a few weeks is a lot! Nice kings, always looking for the "perfect" king. And to think, not too long ago you were a newbie to field herpin'! Hanging around Zees' inner circle is starting to rub off on you! You need to come down here next year and go for the prizes of Texas, c'mon down, I'll show you somethin' cool. Great looking kings. again! Keep me in mind for the black and high white perfect chain king.
Todd Hughes

Nahhh - I am quite content with the Eastern U.S. Not much interested in Western herps. I have nothing against them or guys that herp the West; just not my bag.

I was a newbie to Field Herping and I still am. I try to learn stuff from everyone I meet and I try to be a sponge whenever I hear other Field Herpers talk about how they do it; from how they look for places to go, what time of year, temps, and even how they park vehicles to access abandoned lots.

Two other guys besides Zee really helped me learn how to find these Kings - Michael Coone and Justin Collins. I would never have this AWESOME hand-collected 2.2 group of Maryland Kings if it wasn't for Zee, Michael and Justin.
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

Props to the Blue King and your circle, just puttin' out an invite should you find yourself "in the neighborhood"! Not to nitpick, but what's wrong with the western species? I would consider these central and southern, it looked like you were havin' a blast in the sandhills, a far cry from Maryland!
Todd Hughes

Todd,

Please - nothing against any of the western species... It's just that I spent my childhood wishing I could catch Eastern Kings and Corn snakes. They are all interesting in their own ways but Corn snakes and Eastern Kings just happen to be my favorite North American colubrids (and Coastal Plains Milks and Scarlet Kings also!!)

I consider the Sanshills to be firmly in the category of "East Coast". After all - I think the "Sandhills" itself was the coastline during the last ice age wasn't it? Not sure but I think that is what created it.
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

No problems here, Pete, just curious. I too long to catch easterns and corns, but fate has placed me a bit far from their range, although my daughter now lives in Va., so who knows, an impromptu snake trip while visiting could happen! Also will be in Daytona for the big show, hope to meet a buncha you guys there!
Todd Hughes

That snake is phenomenal!!! Super thin chains that are uniform and white!!!!!!
If you kept him would you want to sell him???

Not for sale.

Will never be for sale.

Go catch your own.
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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com

I would, but we don't have them up here.

No need to be an assh*le there Pete!

hah hah...

Better check your email before you get nasty with me: you might regret it later.

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Peter Jolles
East Coast Colubrids
www.eastcoastcolubrids.com