Reptile & Amphibian Forums

what's the best way getting into hots?

1. i heard about catching your own copperhead and handling it.

2. find a hot keeper near u and learn from him

3. find a similar snake to the one you want except nonvenomous
ex: if u want to get a mamba, get a mean asian rat snake of some sort because they move the same.

what can i do?

LEARN, LEARN, LEARN!!!! Find someone in your area that keeps the types of animals you're interested in and learn from him/her...Even if you have previous reptile keeping experience, I can assure you that keeping a corn snake is NOTHING like dealing with a diamondback rattlesnake having a bad day...Think about what you'll do in the event you are bitten BEFORE you acquire and venomous snakes...

The biggest thing is to learn as much as you can about every aspect of venomous keeping before you acquire any of your own animals...Only after you've done this would I recommend you begin to consider acquiring your own "hot".

-AzAtrox

You scared me with the

"1. i heard about catching your own copperhead and handling it."

Hooks and tongs are the responsible way to deal with hots.

Find a mentor to instruct you.

For handling hots, I would refer you to several religious sects, but keep in mind that they frequently die from untreated snake bites!
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
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Conservation through Education

I suspect he did not mean free-handling...

Option #2 is BY FAR the best way. Do lots of research and try very hard to find someone locally to train you. Only if you can't find anyone should you even consider other options.
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What goes up must come down...unless it exceeds escape velocity.

First do some real soul searching and ask yourself if you are prepared and willing to accept the consequence of being bitten. Can you justify keeping a venomous species in your own mind?

Check to see if you have any local city ordinances of state laws concerning keeping such animals, necessary permits, etc.

Find some experienced keeper in your area and see if he would be willing to mentoring you to become competent at keeping hot species. You don't learn this overnight...it takes time.

Remember, keeping a venomous animal should not involve unnecessary "handling". Most "handling" should normally be acomplished with tongs and/or hooks.
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Gerald Keown
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
www.southwesternherp.com

By far the most commonly over looked part of keeping venomous snakes is... BASIC HUSBANDRY.

Make sure you are 100% comfortable with routine procedures, how to manage a sick snake, how to deal with non-feeding snakes, how to medicate snakes. Many people jump into hots way too quickly. Some people will have no prior experience with reptiles, and some think they are ready because they've kept a blood python or two and a corn snake.

It isn't uncommon (unfortunately) to hear from people that aren't even sure what kind of venomous snake they have, what AV to use, or what could result from a bite.

Keep and breed various nonvenomous snakes first. Get all aspects of husbandry under control. Then think about finding a mentor.

As far as prepping for keeping a mamba, an asian ratsnake won't do it. Years and years of venomous experience, after years of nonvenomous experience is the only appropriate way to make it up to keeping such a snake.

In short, just take your time, and don't be the guy that posts "Hey, I've got a cobra, what do I do now?" and "What's a hide box?" and you'll find there are lots of people in this community that are willing to help out someone who genuinely shares an interest in the husbandry of venomous reptiles.

You're getting some rock solid advice here. Be careful how you use the word "handling" when talking about venomous herps. There should be no direct contact with a venomous snake; master the use of hooks, tongs, etc. No non venomous snake can ever come close to recreating the "feel" of a similarly behaved/wired venomous. Don't be in a rush and find a good mentor to show you the ropes.

>>what's the best way getting into hots?
>>
>>1. i heard about catching your own copperhead and handling it.
>>
>>2. find a hot keeper near u and learn from him
>>
>>3. find a similar snake to the one you want except nonvenomous
>>ex: if u want to get a mamba, get a mean asian rat snake of some sort because they move the same.
>>
>>what can i do?
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

okay, basically. ive only had snakes for a little over and year. i currently now have a bci and a pretty old mex rosy boa that that was given to me. ive also been keeping all types of lizards and geckos since i was about 8 or 9. i'm in the DC area, NoVA to be precise. are there any hot keepers who'd like to help me out? i just want to get the basics for a copperhead that i'm looking to catch this summer, but one day, my ultimate goal is to keep a western gaboon.

There really is no such thing as "basics". Please don't take this wrong but it sounds to me like you are young and inexperienced in handling snakes with very limited interaction with different species.

Handling Boas and Copperheads are not exactly the same. Copperheads are fast and can be aggresive....it may not be as toxic as other species but I would suggest taking everyone's advice and seek a responsible keeper of venomous in your neck of the woods before going out and capturing a wildcaught venomous species of your own.

Learn as much as you can before you put yourself and others in danger....don't rush into things and you will definitely enjoy keeping the animals and appreciate them more when you are able to keep them as safely as can be.

Good luck....

I applaud your choice of species, as both are gorgeous and interesting, however everything that everyone has said here still stands. Luckily for you, these two species are common in many venomous collections, so finding someone that keeps them (assuming they're legal to keep in Va) shouldn't be difficult.

Copperheads can be quicker than people think, and while a bite from one is seldom fatal, necrosis and the lose of a finger are definite possibilities for those careless enough to get bitten. This species is the "most recommended first hot" by many people, and with good reason....it has alot going for it...There is no rush....copperheads aren't going anywhere in the state of Va...from what I hear they're pretty common and so once you've honed your venomous husbandry skills with a mentor to the extent that you're ready, I'm sure they'll be around...

Gaboons are DEFINITELY a species that I would not recommend until such time as you've had quite a few years of venomous experience. Yes, they lay around like a slug and they are beautiful animals, but they are also quite deceptive...They have lightening fast strikes and can strike from almost any position...What's more an envenomated bite is VERY dangerous as these snakes inject ALOT of venom...Fatalities are a definite possibility with this species...It is hoped that before you acquire one of these you'll either a) acquire your own AV for it or b) know where a facility is that can treat such a bite. Due to the fact that this is an exotic species, AV is quite a bit harder to find and acquire than it is for indigenous species. Just another thing to keep in mind....

Ok...I'm done rambling...good luck in finding someone to learn from...With the proper training, I think you'll find that these animals are fantastic captives...however, one must ALWAYS be cognizant of the dangers involved.

-AzAtrox

yeah, ive read that both species are quite fast especially the gaboon, and it can look nice and peaceful then give a strike w/o a single sign of warning. copperheads aren't really common where i am, cuz im in the city, but if i go to a park hopefully i'll be able to find one. ive also never seen a copperhead in person, but my friends have, weird. i guess this week i'll be going around petstores and posting wanted signs for hot keepers. also, are there any other herp forums that i can look for keepers besides faunaclassifieds and the reptileroom?

thanks to all who've responded.

This may sound odd, and others may disagree... but... I'd advise against posting such things in typical pet stores. It will probably draw unneeded attention to you, or attract the wrong kind of attention. Keep nonvens, stay active in the herp community, learn basic husbandry, and by the time you are ready to keep hots, you'll know who to go to.

im not a novice in herps. ive been keeping herps all my life, so i think i would know what i'm doing husbandry wise.

>>im not a novice in herps. ive been keeping herps all my life, so i think i would know what i'm doing husbandry wise.

Husbandry means more than just misting the cage for appropriate humidity and making sure that they have fresh water, clean bedding and a meal. When you are talking about husbandry for venomous snakes you have to think about the possibility that this snake needs assistance in removing it's retained eyecaps, or if it has an injury/illness that you have to treat. Good luck in finding a vet that will treat venomous reptiles. In fact, I am more than willing to bet that you WON'T find one.

You should know how to properly pin, restrain, tube, etc. in case you have to perform some type of minor medical procedure on your animal. You stated that you have only been keeping snakes for a little over a year...that qualifies you as a novice.

My best,

Chris
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My Website
www.herpfanatic.com

I meant no offense in my post... However as another mentioned, you said you've been keeping snakes for a little over a year. That (at least in my opinion) is not near enough time for you to have a full grasp of reptile husbandry needed to keep venomous reptiles.

I just was pointing out that posting such information at "pet stores" is not a good idea... As mentioned, work hard, be active in the community, and by the time you are truly ready to keep venomous reptiles you'll know where to get them and who else keeps them.

I don't think I would post a notice looking for a mentor in pet shops. You don't know who you might attract or how well qualified they "really are". I'd suggest that if there is a local herp society in your area that you join it and get involved. You possibly might come across someone with the necessary experience with hots there or at least perhaps hook-up with someone who knows somebody that they would recommend.

Good luck.
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Gerald Keown
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
www.southwesternherp.com

I've never owned a venomous herp and probably never will. I simply cannot afford to lose a limb or worse, or even be laid up in a hospital for a period of time. I'm self employed (I'm a dentist) and others also depend on me for their income. However, I've had a burning interest in venomous herps my entire life. So, to (somewhat) satisfy my intense interest I read, read, read, read, read. I guess you could say I'm a well informed "armchair herper".
All that said, the one comment I've read repeatedly by hot herp handlers is getting bitten "is not a matter of if, but when". Although I know there are many handlers that have never been bitten I also know there is a very significant percentage of those who have. And most of them were likely very responsible handlers who simply had a split-second lapse in concentration.
I guess my approach to handling venomous herps would be to use as much caution as possible, always use tongs and never live handle a venomous snake, but accept the fact that my likelihood of eventually being bitten is very high and prepare accordingly. And that likelihood will increase the longer you're in the hobby. Questions you must ask yourself are: Can you afford the medical bills accumulated as a result of having a snakebite treated? Can you afford the very real possibility you could lose a finger? A limb? A kidney? Both kidneys? Your...life? How much is your hobby worth to you? Fortunately most hot herpers that are bitten and have prompt medical attention do not experience any of the outcomes listed above. How about you? Can you quickly receive AV and COMPETENT medical attention? The average ER physician has little or no training in the treatment of venomous snakebite. And in the hours it could take for him to receive the necessary consultation and information, you've just gone from only having to receive AV, to a faciotomy and the possible loss of a limb. Just some things to consider from an amateur "hot herpetologist". As I asked above, how much is your hobby worth to you? If it's worth the risks to you then go for it.

Very, very well put!!