Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I would love to get into breeding ball pythons ( not for profit reasons, but because I have the space, time, money, and desire to). I do not want to spend thousands just yet on a breeding pair because I want to see how successful I am with a less expensive pair first. I am seeing the word "het" used alot. Does this refer to it looking rather normal but having the genes to have some sort of morph babies? Is it better to have a pair of hets or if only one of the balls is het it is good enough. I am curious what I can get out of a set of hets or one het and one normal? What do you guys think? Thanks

It means they are carrying a simple recessive gene to varying degrees. Either 100%, which means 1 parent was visually carrying the gene (That animal would be homozygous, by the way). For example, an albino bred to a normal female would produce all 100% het albino offspring. 2 100% hets bred together produces 66% hets. A 100% het bred to a normal produces 50% hets, and so on. But once you get under a 50% possibility of the animal carrying the trait, you're really taking a shot in the dark when breeding them together in hopes of getting visual homozygous animals from the breeding, in my opinion. Hope that helps some. Ryan.

The word 'het' is short for 'heterozygous'. All animals that sexually reproduce receive one set of chromosomes from its father and one from its mother. An individual that is heterozygous for some trait would only have 1 chromosome coding for the trait. The individual would have received the trait from either its father or mother. Another important term used less often in the reptile bizz is homozygous. A homozygous individual would have 2 chromosomes that code for the trait. The homozygous individual would have received 1 chromosome from its mother and 1 from its father. Genetics is fascinating and I could ramble on all night. There exist many sites online and other printed resources that explain ball python genetics. You should spend some time doing research.

Brad Ratliff

Therefore, with those excellent explanations, my best bet to get some visual morphs would be to purchase a male het and a female het. This would be cheaper than actually buying the morphs and gives me an excellent chance of getting some hatchling morphs. How much do hets go for?het ghosts, pastels, albinos, or piebalds? Are they really expensive.Also if i invest in a visual morph male and a het female, are my chances even better than 2 hets?
Thank you

But like Brad said, do some of your own research. You have internet access right? And check the classifieds for prices. As far as ratios, breeding a visual to a het gives you a 1:2, so 50 % of the clutch should be the morph you're breeding for. Breeding het to het gives you 1:4, so 25%. And breeding visual to visual is supposed to give you 100%. It doesn't go that way for every single clutch, but if you do it long enough and produce enough clutches, in the long run, that is pretty much the way genetics work out. It's a beautiful thing.

well all but pastel have hets but the prices vary greatly between the different morphs also it would depend greatly on if you were getting adult hets or younger hets...pastel is co-dominant btw so there is pastel and super pastel but no het pastel. yes it would be better to buy a visual and a het if you had the money for that sort of thing simply because with a pair of hets you will produce visuals but all the hets will be 66% chance of being hets (34% chance of being normal) but with a visual and a het you will get visuals and 100% hets so there will be no normals. sorry if its confusing....there are many site will really good explination of recessive, dominant, and co-dominant.

this actually makes perfect sense. I will do my own research, but you guys rock. Now my next question, I have been researching how to breed them and except for fastings, changes of temperatures, and certain times of the year, is it very difficult to breed them. I knew one dude that was succesful and he was a total idiot. Maybe it was beginners luck for him, but I am guessing it cannot be that difficult. Correct?

This is my first year really, REALLY focusing on breeding. I bred 1 male to 5 different females. All 5 females became gravid. 1 clutch is hatching right now. (I was just staring at them starting to stir and check out the world, SO cool.) I have 2 clutches in the incubator, and 2 more clutches to be laid over the next week and a half. I'm expecting to end up with a total of about 40 eggs, with 5 of them already hatched. I was meticulous about doing everything right, but obviously it worked out just fine. It's the most rewarding thing about keeping snakes. Nothing at all comes close.

how much does an incubator cost?

The above is a good definition of het but you should watch out because many others in the ball python community misuse the term. Heterozygous means having an unmatched pair of genes for whatever trait you are talking about. It does not necessarily mean normal looking gene carrier. It just happens to work out that way with the recessive mutations.

It is also accurate to refer to a heterozygous pastel or spider, they just don't look normal. By understanding co-dominant and dominant hets you can better predict their offspring, especially as more complex crosses are routinely done.

If I want to have albino hatchlings one day, what is the best combo, except for both albino parents? Is one normal female and one 100% het albino male, gonna do it for me? Remember that I want to keep only one or two from the clutch and give the rest to a collector veternarian friend of mine? So whatcha think? And thank you

Because albino is a recessive trait you need two copies of the mutant albino version of the gene (homozygous albino), one from each parent.

Your het male to a normal for albino female will not be able to produce albinos, only possible hets. I don't believe there is any way to reliably identify by sight which of the hatchlings got the single copy of the albino gene from dad so it would just be luck if you kept back the right het albino daughter to try for albino the next generation.

I think in your case (not wanting to raise many snakes) you would need to pay up and buy a het albino female. If that's absolutely out of the budget you could try with a possible het albino female and maybe get lucky. I just sold my last three young adult 50% het albino females for $50 each but it was a distress sale (wife made me do it) and I think you would normally have to pay more even with the current low prices.

If you go the het x normal route - you would hold back all of the female offspring (these would be 50% possible hets), raise them breed them back to your het male - if they prove out to be hets then you will get an albino or two from the clutch - if you get nothing then its normal.

Het x het pairing you should get an albino possibly a couple of them in your first clutch.

Homo (visual) x het - you should get a few visual albinos in your first clutch

Homo x Homo - you will get all albinos in your clutch
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Tosha
JET Pythons

I am going to buy a homo (visual) albino male (because males are cheaper), then I will purchase a female 100% het albino and see how much luck I have. Like I said I only want to keep one or two visuals from the clutch. Here is a teaser for you guys, what will happen if I breed a 100% het piebald male with a 100% het albino female? What should I get out of the clutch according to your experiences?

You would get offspring that are 50% possible het for each.

But would I get any visual albinos (homo)?

Not unless the het pied was also het albino.

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/care.html On the bottom of the page there is genetic info. I found it very helpful.

That is some awesome info...Exactly what I was looking for. I wonder how many people started out not spending too much money on some cheaper morphs and ended up with balls that were worth thousands? Just through their own breeding. It might take years, but I guessing it is defintly a possibility with a little luck.

Glad I could help. I have 3 Het Ghost that I picked up for pretty cheap that hopefully in two years will be up to size and fingers crossed I'll have some little ghost babies. Sure it takes time and effort but to raise them and then have babies will be well worth the wait to me. Plus it gives me the time to learn and aquire everything I need.

Very cool dude. Where are you from? Post a pic of your ghosts. Me and you are basically on the same page. While they are growing I can acquire more knowledge on the little guys.

The great state of Minnesota, which sucks, the nearest reptile shows I can find are in Chicago. They are hets so they look normal but they are pretty

IMG]http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u276/Tomorrow264/5-20-2007011.jpg[/IMG]

Hopefully these work. I'm not the greatest at posting pics.

I know someone in hastings, minnesota and yeah it does suck. I am in tampa, much better down here. I have the daytona and the orlando shows which daytona is the largest in the country. I am originally from the bronx so I had some great ny shows before I moved down here.

check out this FAQ from our site. there are more technical and in depth descriptions (also linked in the FAQ) but i wrote this so that most beginners could grasp the basics : )
Pro Exotics FAQ on genetics

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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

How much does an albino ball male and a100% het albino female cost? Or I could just do the albino male and a normal female to get some albino offspring. What are the costs?

check the classifieds for a range of prices from different breeders. females are typically more than males. it may still be a bit early in the year for a good selection, we haven't hatched any yet this year, but they are coming : )
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

I am going to the orlando reptile expo in july. Do you think I will get a good selection of hatchlings there?

never been to that show, i have no idea. shows are hit and miss. you can find some excellent breeders, but they are often overwhelmed by Shady Sheister Reptile tables all around them. be careful and choose wisely.

you are looking for lots of info, that is good. but you can't just keep asking basic questions that have been asked 6000 times before. the info is out there for you to find.

i would strongly recommend getting The Complete Ball Python book by McCurley, available at our site, or here on the classifieds. it covers ALL OF THIS material, including breeding details. buying the actual snakes, that is the easy part. get the book, read a few times, absorb that info, and you will have a solid base to move forward from.

best of luck, it is a great adventure!
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robyn@proexotics.com

Pro Exotics Reptiles

Thanks for all that info and I will check that book

You wont get albino offspring from breeding Albino male to normal female, you will get all 100% het (normal looking animals but they will have the gene for albino) You would have to hold all of those females back and breed them back to the albino male to produce visable albinos. 2 hets will produce albinos and an albino and a het will produce albinos, no other combinations.
Just thought id clear that up, didnt want you to buy an albino and not get any albino babies if you breed it to a normal ..

Kim
N.A.R.C

If you want to produce an Albino, you need a Homozygous (Albino) pair, a Heterogygous (Het) Pair, or combination of the two. The best thing to do, in my opinion, is to buy a Het Albino female or two. Next year, buy a male Albino, and then breed the trio.

Dave

Genes come in pairs. A gene pair is homozygous when the two genes are the same. A gene pair is heterozygous when the two genes are not the same. A heterozygous snake has at least one heterozygous gene pair.

A heterozygous gene pair could contain a normal gene and a mutant (abnormal) gene. Or it could contain two different mutant genes. Most heterozygous snakes have a gene pair containing a normal gene and a mutant gene.

A heterozygous gene pair could contain a normal gene and a recessive mutant gene. In this case, the snake looks normal. Example: a heterozygous albino ball python has a normal gene paired with an albino mutant gene. Such a snake looks normal; it does not show the effect of the mutant gene.

A heterozygous gene pair could contain a normal gene and a dominant (or codominant) mutant gene. In this case, the snake does not look normal. Example: a heterozygous pastel ball python has a normal gene paired with a pastel mutant gene. Such a snake does not look normal; it shows the effect of the mutant gene.

Your best bet is to learn genetics from a genetics text, like Schaum's Introduction to Genetics, by Elrod and Stansfield. Trying to learn from other herpers almost guarantees a lot of misinformation, such as the claim that all het snakes look normal.

Paul Hollander