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Shell growth of box turtle

hydrogen_wv May 29, 2007 10:22 AM

About 18 months ago, my dad was mowing the lawn and happened across some turtle eggs. He took them in and one hatched... the others were damaged by the mower. We have a seemingly healthy female turtle, probably a common box turtle, but not 100% sure.
The turtle is housed in doors in an enclosed area.. moss to hide under, a water dish for soaking, UV light, temperature is controlled with a heating pad (heating pad is under one end of linoleum that is nailed down to the floor, so heat is there but not direct). She eats earthworms, grubs, millipedes, snails, and other creepy-crawlies. She will only eat live food. She will not eat dead insects.
In 18 months, her shell is a little smaller than my hand... I'd say from front to back, the shell is about 4-5 inches long. My concern is that the shell is not smoothing out. The shell is still very bumpy... There are hexagonally shaped protrusions that stick out about a half of a centimeter. Is this normal? I saw some pictures on here and it seems like most turtles shells smooth out before they are even a year old.

Also, does enclosure size have any effect on the rate of growth of turtles? I know that fish grow bigger if they have more space... are turtles the same? What is the proper size for an enclosure for one turtle? My idea was to dig a square hole about a foot deep and build a chickenwire "box" with 4 sides and a bottom... put the box underground and fill in the bottom foot with dirt, so the ground will be even, but be enclosed so she can not dig out or anything... Would 2ft wide by 3-4ft long be a good size for one turtle? I'd add in some features for shade, coolness, watering, etc..

I've also noticed that when we bring the turtle outside for her to walk around, she heads for the woods or for a tall patch of grass and tries to bury, unless it is very warm outside... Do turtles bury for warmth or for coolness?

I know there are a lot of questions here, but I want to do the best I can for the turtle and want it to live a healthy life.. Thanks in advance for all the answers.

Replies (11)

hydrogen_wv May 29, 2007 10:39 AM

Here's a picture of her... Shell bumps are evident in this pic..
Image

biowarble May 29, 2007 12:28 PM

I couldn't see the photo

hydrogen_wv May 29, 2007 01:10 PM

Does this one work?
Image

hydrogen_wv May 29, 2007 01:12 PM

Here's the newest picture I have of her.. the other post is her 2 weeks old.... Are those bumps normal... they are very obvious and they SEEM to be getting smaller in relation to her size... they seem to be 'spreading out'...
Image

RMB May 29, 2007 01:55 PM

Hi,
No, unfortunately, those bumps are not normal. The observed shell growth is due to an improper diet. The advanced "pyramiding" that is evident from the photo usually results from diets that are too high in protein that has seriously impaired calcium metabolism (and also likely a severe lack of adequate usable calcium in the diet).
Other members will likely be able to add their input as to whether the condition can be reversed or at least mitigated.
Here is a good article on pyramiding: http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/Pyramiding.htm

hydrogen_wv May 29, 2007 02:51 PM

Thank you for the info... Will the proper diet cause the shell to smooth out and grow properly? Should we just improve her diet as per the articles about this or does she need a vet? I noticed that there are 6 main causes... I think too much protein may be the culprit. We have never been able to get her to eat vegetation... all she will eat is live insects... her daily diet usually consists of earthworms, grubs, and snails. She will eat about 14 grubs, 6 earthworms, or about 10 snails (or any combination, but in a pretty constant amount) each day. Is that excessive? How much should she eat per day?

Inaccessible calcium is another worry for me. Where do turtles get most calcium from? should we give her a calcium supplement? It'd be easy for us to sprinkle calcium powder on her food...

Low fiber foods... could be this due to lack of vegetation? or not?

Lack of exercise and hydration shouldn't be issues. She walks around a lot, especially if we take her outside... I think more sunlight (an outdoor enclosure) would make her more active.

Hydration is no issue, i'm sure.. She has a large water dish with a couple inches of water that she can go in whaever she wants.. she usually goes in and soaks twice a day.

StephF May 29, 2007 03:02 PM

The pyramiding that is there won't go away, however, by improving its diet, you can probably ensure that future shell growth will be smooth and healthy. I've included a link to a good overview about diet which gives more information on the subject.

It appears that your turtle has a few extra vertebral scutes, too, so this turtle would have had an unusual shell, pyramiding or not.
Link

PHRatz May 29, 2007 03:12 PM

I can attest to the fact that the pyramiding will never go away but that proper diet started now can ensure that new growth can be healthy.
On a corrected diet as the turtle grows the appearance of the pyramiding will flatten out somewhat and will make the turtle look more normal than it does now, but will never be 100 percent normal.

This is what we've been through with our sulcata tortoise who we adopted with huge pyramids already in place.
I'll include a link to her photo album, you can see in the newer photos she's still not normal but she looks a lot better now than she did in 2002 when she got here.
Steph & RMB have given you some good advice already so I really have nothing more to add on that.
Good luck with your turtle.
Destiny

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PHRatz

hydrogen_wv May 29, 2007 03:25 PM

Yeah.. when my dad found her, the egg was still attached (somehow.. I don't know the specifics), and it seems that may have caused teh shell to be slightly deformed. I'll do all that I can to get her fixed up.. After looking at some outdoor enclosures, I've come up with some plans...

She is a lovely, friendly turtle.. she only pulls in if you bug her when she first wakes up, other than that she isn't shy at all. She likes to have her head rubbed as well... When you pick her up, she doesn't "swim"... she just relaxes and enjoys the ride... We let her roam around inside the house sometimes and it's amazing the places she'll find to sleep..

PHBoxTurtle May 29, 2007 05:20 PM

Please check out the hatchling chapter in my online book at www.boxturtlesite.info/bred.html.

The turtle's shell will look somewhat smoother in time-but not because the pyramiding that is present goes away, but because the new growth will hopefully be smoother.

Diet and humidity plays a big role in contributing to "pyramiding of turtle and tortoise shell". Google the Internet with these words and read what comes up. You can help a lot by provifding the proper diet and housing-but start NOW, while the turtle is still growing. Once an adult-the shell's shape is locked in- except abrasion will change the shape slightly.
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Tess
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NajaAnja May 29, 2007 07:33 PM

Everyone gave great advice, good luck with your little one. I might add, she is a Three-toed Box Turtle.
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Anja Buffalo
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