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We built a new enclosure for our two 3-toed box turtles living in the a sunbelt microclimate in San Francisco (Bernal Heights neighborhood in SF).

I put photos up here of the site preparation and the end result here:
http://www.sfraw.com/turtle_enclosure/

You can see Mishima and Petal exploring the enclosure the first day and in their hidey holes yesterday:
http://www.sfraw.com/turtles/

It took a long time to prepare the site as our place was built in 1906 and there are all these old foundations and such under the back area, which someone covered entirely with a cement. All of this had to be broken up in order to put the enclosure in, line it with wire mesh, fill with dirt and peat moss. We dug down to just under 3 feet.

We found some cool artifacts during our little excavation - including an old beer bottle from 1903, some old bones, old bricks, marbles, pieces of pottery, little medicine glass bottles - all this in just a 4'x8' section of the yard! The plan is to keep the turtles in this enclosure while we do construction on the house, and then to eventually take out all of the cement and landscape with CA natives and have a little vegetable garden, too.

You can see some of them here:
http://www.sfraw.com/artifacts/

For now, Petal and Mishima have their little "veggie" garden to hang out in.

The plants have been growing really well! Turtles seem happy and active (mating, too), though they are not that interested in eating. I really hope this ends up just being a thing they will get over after they acclimate to the new place and not a problem with the set-up. I water every day and have just started soaking them every day in warm water, too.

The temperatures range between high 40s-50s at night and between 65-100s during the day (averaging about 78-80 during the day). The temperatures change quite a bit throughout the day, depending on where the sun is (we have big trees that shade the yard, but I placed the enclosure in the sunniest part). During the hotter/full-sun part of the day, they hide out in their muddy hidey holes in the shade. I did a few weeks of just keeping a log of the direct sun and shade temperatures of the location before deciding to put the enclosure there and have four different thermometers in the enclosure that I keep track of. The temperature can go well over 100 (as it did yesterday and the day before) at the hottest part of the day, but when this happens, they are in locations that are not nearly as hot (closer to 80 degrees). Any ideas? I've never had either of them go off their food before. I wasn't worried at first, but now I am starting to worry. I have been trying all sorts of foods to try and get them to eat more than a bite here and there. Their stools were normal, but today neither one of them had stools when I soaked them.

Kasie

Temperatures that low at night can stall their metabolism. Even if it gets hot during the day, those cold nightly temperatures can affect them. Make sure that they have a hiding spot that is insulated from those cold temperatures. You may need to dig a tunnel and create a cave...the ground will hold some heat throughout the night. Rock and cement can also help...their properties make temperature changes within them very slow. Large pieces will typically hold some heat into the night.

Ornate box turtles are accustomed to this, as cold nights are common in arid areas with low humidity. Easterns and Three-toes are not adapted well to this circumstance. Moisture buffers against drastic temperature fluctuations, and areas with higher humidity don't regularly dip that low.

I hope this helps. Neat looking pen. They'll love the squash! If you find any old valuable coins...uh, I dropped them there a few decades ago, they're mine. I'll pay shipping

Thanks for the reply!

I actually did try to incorporate some passive solar elements to the design of the pen - which is why I kept a lot of the old bricks and cement pieces and laid them back in there where it gets sunniest.

Mishima's is a quite nice hole he dug about 8-10 inches down in the mud, in the corner that gets the first sun in the AM, under a flat piece of cement - so I think his "bed" is in a good spot. I am planning on adding a small leaf compost pile in that corner, too - so he'll be next to/under this and it will also help with insulation (and add a natural food supply - bugs, worms, etc.)

Petal's deluxe accommodations are in the middle of the pen under the big drift wood pile, about 5-6 inches deep in the mud, under a pile of wood that is bordered by bricks, and has a line of support bricks down the middle, too. Her hole goes under the bricks, too - so they are using these for insulation it seems. I do not have a temperature gauge for directly where they are sleeping in the mud - though I'd love to find out just what the temp is in their "beds" at night.

I was thinking that I might need to add a player of polycarbonate greenhouse glazing to the lid to keep things warmer in there overnight. There's a place that sells the double-walled version for about $100 a 4'x8' sheet, and they will cut to order. I think that will be my next step.

As for humidity levels - we're on the coast here, so we get fog pretty regularly at night and sometimes it lingers the AM (our microclimate is clear of fog during the day unless the fog covers the entire Bay Area - like today) - but it's a cool type of fog, not hot and humid.

I know it's silly, but when I did my log of backyard temperatures before I built the enclosure (my little "feasibility study" I called it! - what a dork! I checked local temps in areas in the US where 3-toed box turtles are native to for comparison...randomly selected places I compared with were:

Longview, TX
Max Temperature 73 °F
Mean Temperature 62 °F
Min Temperature 51 °F

Springfield, MO
Max Temperature 65 °F
Mean Temperature 54 °F
Min Temperature 42 °F

Jackson, MS
Max Temperature 74 °F
Mean Temperature 63 °F
Min Temperature 52 °F

Charleston, SC
Max Temperature 77 °F
Mean Temperature 64 °F
Min Temperature 51 °F

San Francisco (airport readings), CA
Max Temperature 63 °F
Mean Temperature 56 °F
Min Temperature 49 °F

Would checking these temps be at all useful to determine if they could live outdoors here or was that a waste of time? The readings for San Francisco's weather above were actually taken at the airport here. This is not anywhere near SF at all, but in a city south of SF (so weird they call it "San Francisco" when it's not even the true weather in the city) - and it is almost always much colder and wetter down there. The temps were averaging comparatively to the native locations during this period for my backyard temps. My backyard temps were always 10-20 degrees warmer during the day than what is listed on wunderground.com for SF; and the 'on the ground' temp highs, like I said, get much higher in my backyard/the enclosure, too. The averages looked quite close overall, however, when I did this log.

Obviously, these "citywide" temp readings might not make much of a difference because turtles settle into/move between microclimate locations that are the ideal temp for them (muddy holes under cement/brick/wood piles for their hot day temp and overnight "beds", for example) - so I don't know if this information is/was at all useful. I guess I just wanted to be sure I wasn't putting them out into a location that was vastly different from their native habitat would be.

Thank you! I'm going to order the polycarbonate glazing today and see if this helps with overnight insulation.

I do know that I will need to remove the glazing during the daytime so they can get their sunlight; this will work out fine because I open up the lids during the day anyway.

Kasie

That's a nice setup. I just had some friends from the Bay Area over to see my outdoor box turtle enclosure:

Third Eye

Here's what the pen looks like. It's about 4 x 8 feet:

Third Eye

Nice - mine is 4x8, too.

Your location appears to be much shadier than mine is. Maybe I put my enclosure in a location that gets too much sun? I might have to add some pieces of wood to the top like you have done to offer more shady areas...??

I put a lot of plants in there, so I hope they help with offering more shady spots. They do seem to really enjoy walking around under the big squash leaves, so maybe they want a little more shade?

Kasie

Thank you. You have a herd of turtles it seems! Nice photo.

I think that you are doing exactly the correct thing...researching and making this work for your situation. There's nothing silly about it.

I am a little concerned about the temperature numbers that you found. For instance, I live very close to Charleston, SC. You found...

Charleston, SC
Max Temperature 77 °F
Mean Temperature 64 °F
Min Temperature 51 °F

Is that an average max temperature, and an average min temperature?...for all seasons? I can tell you that, in the summer when the turtles are out of hibernation, max temperatures are typically over 90 degrees F and lows at night don't usually dip below 70 degrees F (maybe directly on the beach with a sea breeze). Just be careful when comparing temperatures. Yearly averages can be misleading, as Easterns typically live in areas with very cold winters and very hot summers. Climatology in Cali. can be a nightmare, I know. A 20 mile distance can result in a very different climate.

Time will tell. My concern was that consistent 40 degree F nights could alter their metabolism. If you are able to manipulate their microclimate, great! It could be that they are simply refusing food until they settle down into their new surroundings.

Keep in mind, it could also be the CHANGE of temperatures. Turtles have internal clocks that signal brumation. If their day length is decreased, temperatures are dropped (even if only nightly), or a combination of the two, it could be signaling them to initiate brumation. Two of the behaviors that I typically notice in my turtles as brumation approaches...increased breeding and decreased appetite. Sometimes, if I "graduate" young turtles to the outdoor pen in early spring, they will exhibit brumation activities. Compared to my indoor set up, temperatures are a bit lower and the daylength is a bit shorter. I guess I can't blame them. Often, it takes nearly a month for them to acclimate.

I'm impressed with how much you've done. Some tortoise keepers in your area build thermoregulated houses that their animals can enter during the cold nights. It is often nothing more than a dog house and a red light bulb. That is another option for you, and it sounds like you are more than willing to do it.

Nice job on the new enclosure!

I live in the Santa Cruz mountains in Los Gatos and built a Spucklerboxx over the past winter. I also put two electronic thermometers in the enclosure, one near the fence (slightly shady) and one near the deck (very sunny) Both are exposed and touching the ground.

These meters record the highest and lowest temps, so over the winter I would check them on the first of every month, just to see what the temps would be out there. From August through March, the warm side high and low ranged from 35 degrees to 72 degrees, and the shady side ranged from 28 degrees to 68 degrees. Based on this, I feel it is ok to let boxies winter outside in the Bay Area (despite what the local vivarium guys say)

Wow - that's beautiful! I'm not familiar with the term Spucklerboxx. Is it the name of a kit you purchased or a term for this type of enclosure?

Did you use redwood? I decided to use redwood because I didn't want to use a treated wood product.

What kind of box turtles do you have and how are they faring in the new enclosure so far? Did you hibernate them (doesn't seem like it got cold enough for hibernating)? It would be really odd for it to get below 30 here! Our winter temperatures usually go down to the 40s/high 30s with very occasional moments in time going below freezing. We have a very "temperature" climate in SF.

I want to be sure they are kept warm enough all year to not drop into the 'too warm to thrive/not cold enough to hibernate' "dead zone". Did you cover the enclosure or add any furnishings that helped them to stay warm over the winter? Looks like there is some added insulation on the sides of your enclosure with a layer of mulch along the sides? Was that by design?

Thanks for posting! Nice to see another "semi-local" on the board.

The East Bay Vivarium says 3-toed box turtles cannot live well outdoors in The City (but can do so in the non-coastal/valley regions of the Bay Area), but my local pet store resident herp expert (she really is an expert) said, "If anyone can do it, you can" and that's she's not worried about me doing it. That was a nice compliment! I guess she knows how dedicated I am to my animals.

Kasie

Sorry, I meant:
'too cold to thrive/not cold enough to hibernate' "dead zone"

not:
'too warm to thrive/not cold enough to hibernate' "dead zone"

Kasie

Nice job on the box..
You're not a dork for researching!
-----
PHRatz

I added boards diagonally in two corners of my enclosure. I can sit on them to watch my turtles, but, more importantly my turtles like to hang out under that area. If you think you might need more shade, this could work for you. I think my turtles like it under there because it provides them with cover overhead, so they don't feel as vulnerable.

Very nice...and big! I love the sign(haha), good one.