Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey all, I have 6 turtles (5 res, and one map turtle) and im having a time keeping the water clean, I have 4 tanks, (ranging from 40 gallon long, 29 gallon, 20 gallon and 10 gallon) and I plan on adding more as soon as I get all my snakes moved into a new room. But whats the best filter? No mater how much I clean and change the water they are all ways seem to smell to my mom, and all ways clowdy and dirty. I am not useing very good filter at the time, dulitto dj 50 and 100 and A UGF on my 40 long, and a modifided clip on the back on my 29 gallon. But im looking for somting that is going to work, and work good, I dont mind paying a little extra for somthing nice, I would be very happy cleaning only once a week. But what brand and make? The filters made for fish tanks seems like they would clog really easly, and the ones for turtles only have a spounge. Also is there any way I can modify a fish filter? Like cuting a hole in a spoung made for filters, and fitting the "in take" line through that so it would filter the big stuff before it made it into the filter? Well thanks in advace for any advice.
Philip

p.s

I am feeding the right ammounts of food.

I would reccommend a canister filter because from what I've read, they seem to work very well. Although, I actually use a power filter for my 20 L along with a undergravel and my water stays very clear. I change some of the water once every week. I would reccommend feeding your turts outside of the tanks. That way, the turtles will poop in the container and not the tank(they go poop right after they eat.

I wanted something large and cheap...so I made one.
Home brew filter

I agree that the fluval 404 is probably the best choice but I didn't have the money to buy one. I use a Tetratech 300 powerfilter and my water is crystal clear. Of course I only have three turtles not six. I don't feed my guys in a seperate tank but I agree that it would keep you water much cleaner.

Not to lecture, but why did you go get that many turtles with tanks that small? I hope you have some money for an upgrade real soon. As for filtes, I have used Hagen Fluvals for ~15 years, would never use anything else. I used a 303 for 8 years on a 100 gallon salt water tank, never a problem (thought the 04 design is much better than the 03). The rating for tank size is under estimated, whether on purpose to sell larger ones or what, I don't know. Maybe it is just me, but the small the better for me and I have used with with salt water tanks (9 of them), many fresh water fish tanks (cichlids, pirahnas, oscars), and the RES.

Matt

first, NEVER feed them in the tank again, just stop doing it. Instead, get some cat litter pans, plastic ones, from wal-mart for a buck or two each. Put in enough water to cover the turtle, add turtle and food, wait 20 mins, return turtle to tank. They will soon get used to this and eat happily in a bin, then all food scraps go down the drain when you empty it.

second, the BEST filtration combo I know of is to take a good cannister filter that is designed for more than your tank size (like a fluval 404 or an xp3 or that type of filter), and use it WITH also a UGF setup with powerheads running at the same time. I used this over the winter (except I had a crappier internal fluval) and it was amazing results... give it a shot. I never did a full water change, all winter, only one partial and two fluval filter cleanings and topping off water every week. It was incredible and I had three turtles in less than 20 gals of water (very bad to overload but I was stuck with turtles refusing to hibernate and it was winter). My water never stank at all.

I also had a handful of plants in there and they did very well.

All right, thanks for all the replys. I will shot for a canister filter.
Thanks alot,
Philip

well i totally disagree about feeding in separate containers as i think it leaves nothing for the turtles to do all day before and after the feeding (when they should be alternately basking and searching for food) but lots of people do it and i guess its okay. Its a personal decision but i think a little more work on keepers part yeaild's better quality of life for pet.

as far as as cannisters go, i also disagree. i think massive mechaical filtration and many partial water changes is what is needed for turtles . So on many of my tanks i use good old aquaclear 500 or the above-mentioned tetratecs.

But still the best think to do is have a lot of spcae. Like one square foot of surface area per inch of turtle.
also the much-maligned (by the fish hobbyists and aquarium industry anyway) undergravel filter is really helpful
Get a deep gravel bed of large stones (too big for the turt to eat) and get powerheads on REVERSE flow. This way you pump water and air under the plate and it rises up.
The waste never makes it to the bottom anyway and if you use sponge prefilters on the powerheads you can trap huge amounts of detritus and minimize water changes.
But unless you can afford massive tanks, partial water changes are the rule, not the exception with large aquatic turtles.

well i totally disagree about feeding in separate containers as i think it leaves nothing for the turtles to do all day before and after the feeding (when they should be alternately basking and searching for food) but lots of people do it and i guess its okay. Its a personal decision but i think a little more work on keepers part yeaild's better quality of life for pet.

Unfounded assumptions. Some plant materials and a few quick fish offer some stimulation for turtles in their underwater explorations. Cleaner water will result in a healthier animal and matters more than the ability to "hunt" for food that is already fed regularly and unaturally. Small food particles are all that remain of most turtle foods, which are too small to "hunt" and end up in the cracks and crevices of a tank anyway, where they spoil and wreak havoc on water cleanliness. If feeding more than the turtle gulps down in a few minutes, it's probably overfeeding anyway, the diet of wild turtles is much more filled with graze plants than our captives. In captivity they regularly get high quality foods. An attractive and interesting tank will provide plenty of enjoyment. Live plants offer a snack, and a few quick cheap fish offer something to chase and perhaps rarely catch and eat.

as far as as cannisters go, i also disagree. i think massive mechaical filtration and many partial water changes is what is needed for turtles . So on many of my tanks i use good old aquaclear 500 or the above-mentioned tetratecs.

The strong point of a cannister filter is that they can be outfitted to provide solely mechanical, solely biological, or mixture filtering. The over-the-side filters or internal mechanical filters such as the duetto's or sponge filters provide only a fraction of what a reasonable cannister can provide even in mixxed filtration setups (like half bio and half mechanical medias in the cannister). They also take up the same or less tank space, slightly increase water volume, and are easy to maintain while being quiet.
On my tank a combo of mechanical filtration (which can be of many varieties, but using a cannister is the most superior) and a UGF, far overloaded bioload (three four inch turtles in less than 20 gallons of water in a 40 gallon tank), in 5 months I did ONE partial water change, two filter cleanings of the mechanical, and during the partial did a tad of gravel vacuuming. My water quality was near perfect for that entire time. I had a handful of plants in there as well (anachris and hornwart).
Feeding outside the tank and this filtration proved a perfect combination for health and well being.

But still the best think to do is have a lot of spcae. Like one square foot of surface area per inch of turtle.

I totally agree. Given a choice I won't set up turtles in anything less than ten gallons of water per inch of turtle. That letst he bioload with a good mechanical filter and UGF use be self maintaining. Just add water as it evaporates.

also the much-maligned (by the fish hobbyists and aquarium industry anyway) undergravel filter is really helpful
Get a deep gravel bed of large stones (too big for the turt to eat)

UGF's will function at only a fraction of their potential if you use large gravel. I found a comprimise to this. I put down a thick bed of small gravel (has highest surface area, therefore best for biofiltration, which is all a UGF is), then I covered it with a layer of large decorative river stones to block access to it from the turtles. Adjust the size of cover stones according to your need.

and get powerheads on REVERSE flow. This way you pump water and air under the plate and it rises up.

I used the normal method with great success but know a keeper who has dozens of huge tanks using things this way with cannisters on the tanks to suck up the gunk. Either way will provide nearly identical amounts of bio filtration, since that is generated by flow of water through the media (gravel) and this is a function of the powerhead volume in either direction. Some debris collects in reverse flow as well (though less).

The waste never makes it to the bottom anyway and if you use sponge prefilters on the powerheads you can trap huge amounts of detritus and minimize water changes.

I've found sponge filters release a lot of the waste when trying to remove them from a tank, they also decrease the flow through the powerhead, but if you want reverse flow, that would be one way to do it. Another idea for reverse flow I've heard about from a keeper is to hook up the cannister filter (or multiple depending on your tank size) and use the return from the cannister filter to flow right into the tubes for the UGF, creating a reverse flow with well cleaned and polished water in a means that you can dispose of the debris easily without loosing any back to the tank. Seems like a pretty slick idea. I found that just having a mechanical filter in the tank (a fluval 4 submersible in my case) left almost no debris below the gravel. There was a fine layer of it after 5 months.

But unless you can afford massive tanks, partial water changes are the rule, not the exception with large aquatic turtles.
but you can use good filtration to cut down on those water changes to once every 5-6 months or even less.

----well i totally disagree about feeding in separate containers as i think it leaves nothing for the turtles to do all day before and after the feeding (when they should be alternately basking and searching for food) but lots of people do it and i guess its okay. Its a personal decision but i think a little more work on keepers part yeaild's better quality of life for pet. ----

Unfounded assumptions. Some plant materials and a few quick fish offer some stimulation for turtles in their underwater explorations. Cleaner water will result in a healthier animal and matters more than the ability to "hunt" for food that is already fed regularly and unaturally. Small food particles are all that remain of most turtle foods, which are too small to "hunt" and end up in the cracks and crevices of a tank anyway, where they spoil and wreak havoc on water cleanliness. If feeding more than the turtle gulps down in a few minutes, it's probably overfeeding anyway, the diet of wild turtles is much more filled with graze plants than our captives. In captivity they regularly get high quality foods. An attractive and interesting tank will provide plenty of enjoyment. Live plants offer a snack, and a few quick cheap fish offer something to chase and perhaps rarely catch and eat.

----as far as as cannisters go, i also disagree. i think massive mechaical filtration and many partial water changes is what is needed for turtles . So on many of my tanks i use good old aquaclear 500 or the above-mentioned tetratecs. ----

The strong point of a cannister filter is that they can be outfitted to provide solely mechanical, solely biological, or mixture filtering. The over-the-side filters or internal mechanical filters such as the duetto's or sponge filters provide only a fraction of what a reasonable cannister can provide even in mixxed filtration setups (like half bio and half mechanical medias in the cannister). They also take up the same or less tank space, slightly increase water volume, and are easy to maintain while being quiet.
On my tank a combo of mechanical filtration (which can be of many varieties, but using a cannister is the most superior) and a UGF, far overloaded bioload (three four inch turtles in less than 20 gallons of water in a 40 gallon tank), in 5 months I did ONE partial water change, two filter cleanings of the mechanical, and during the partial did a tad of gravel vacuuming. My water quality was near perfect for that entire time. I had a handful of plants in there as well (anachris and hornwart).
Feeding outside the tank and this filtration proved a perfect combination for health and well being.

----But still the best think to do is have a lot of spcae. Like one square foot of surface area per inch of turtle. ----

I totally agree. Given a choice I won't set up turtles in anything less than ten gallons of water per inch of turtle. That letst he bioload with a good mechanical filter and UGF use be self maintaining. Just add water as it evaporates.

----also the much-maligned (by the fish hobbyists and aquarium industry anyway) undergravel filter is really helpful
Get a deep gravel bed of large stones (too big for the turt to eat)----

UGF's will function at only a fraction of their potential if you use large gravel. I found a comprimise to this. I put down a thick bed of small gravel (has highest surface area, therefore best for biofiltration, which is all a UGF is), then I covered it with a layer of large decorative river stones to block access to it from the turtles. Adjust the size of cover stones according to your need.

----and get powerheads on REVERSE flow. This way you pump water and air under the plate and it rises up. ----

I used the normal method with great success but know a keeper who has dozens of huge tanks using things this way with cannisters on the tanks to suck up the gunk. Either way will provide nearly identical amounts of bio filtration, since that is generated by flow of water through the media (gravel) and this is a function of the powerhead volume in either direction. Some debris collects in reverse flow as well (though less).

----The waste never makes it to the bottom anyway and if you use sponge prefilters on the powerheads you can trap huge amounts of detritus and minimize water changes. ----

I've found sponge filters release a lot of the waste when trying to remove them from a tank, they also decrease the flow through the powerhead, but if you want reverse flow, that would be one way to do it. Another idea for reverse flow I've heard about from a keeper is to hook up the cannister filter (or multiple depending on your tank size) and use the return from the cannister filter to flow right into the tubes for the UGF, creating a reverse flow with well cleaned and polished water in a means that you can dispose of the debris easily without loosing any back to the tank. Seems like a pretty slick idea. I found that just having a mechanical filter in the tank (a fluval 4 submersible in my case) left almost no debris below the gravel. There was a fine layer of it after 5 months.

----But unless you can afford massive tanks, partial water changes are the rule, not the exception with large aquatic turtles.----

but you can use good filtration to cut down on those water changes to once every 5-6 months or even less.