Reptile & Amphibian Forums

If this is passed as feared, who will go despite ramifications? I plan to make at least one trip no matter what and if questioned, appologize and play dumb, acting as if I knew nothing about it.

I mean, I gota get this girl a boyfriend somehow.

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South Texas Herps

will get a ticket, and I will fight it. Now I will probably not
do as much shining. Getting a ticket walking makes the law look EVEN more stupid.

I can go walk it if I want, and there's not a damn thing they can do about it.
In years to come we might find ourselves competing with Deer Hunters for leases and riding four wheelers on private property, shining cuts all the while. Nothing they can do about that either.

I sure hope they don't make it illegal to wipe our @SSES!

An OUTSTANDING MALE, then look no further. If you don't believe me go to Rick Blairs page, and check out his breeder listed below as the link (Juno's). I got one from him that looks EXACTLY like the ultra light male with the oranges and sunburst spots. It is a 10 easy. He might be ready this year but will definitely be ready next year.

Tough to loan him out though...

Best Wishes,

Steven
Juno Alterna

He does have some good looking snakes, ideally I would like to collect a male from the same cut, but now that may be near immpossible. I may have to find a male (perhaps yours) to borrow, or I may buy one if I can find one from the S-curves. Anyway, she will not be ready to breed untill next year at the earliest so I have a little time to spare.
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South Texas Herps

Alterna was from the lower s curve on Juno. If you hit it hard you should be able to get one this year. If you can spend a week walking the lower s-curves I would be surprised if you didn't come back with at least one altera... (assuming that week is dark of the moon, precipitation before you get there and low pressure the entire time).

If not let me know and maybe we can work out a loan or something. Your alterna looks great. Anyone would be proud to find one like that...

ps.. Did you go to the link on my first post?

Best Wishes,

Steven

I did look at the snake, it is smokin. I plan on going to "look at deer on the side of the road" during the dark of the moon in June. I will pretty much live on the lower S-curve while my brother lives on the upper one. My parents will be driving all of Juno and shining cuts for spiders (there are some really cool ones out there.) Isnt it great how pillow cases and sockes conveniantly double as snake bags?
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South Texas Herps

I will without a doubt. As many times as I can possibly be out there. I will shine and walk until my heart is content and my pillow cases are full.

Wayne H.

I also plan to make at least one trip no matter what and if questioned, appologize and play dumb, acting as if I knew nothing about it. BTW nice looking snake!

NO NO!! I mean MULTIPLE TIMES over and over again. As much as possible. Screw the one time stuff! This is a right that I will not allow to be taken away from me!

Wayne H.

Viejo, I dont know why anyone would want to take you, all you can find are Emoryi, Hypsiglena, and Rhinocheilus.
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South Texas Herps

If herping should be come illegal then it makes no sense to possess a hunting license. Possession of a license could be construed as a sign that ytu intened to hunt.

Take your camera and LIE THROUGH YOUR TEETH.

That girl is a beauty! What's her locality?
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Snakes to the Max

1.2 Variable Kingsnakes
1.1 Grayband x Ruthveni
0.1 Western Massasauga (WC)
1.1 Jungle Carpet Pythons
1.0 Jaguar Coastal Carpet Python
1.1 Pastel Red-tail Boas
1.0 Lavender Motley Cornsnake
3.1 Yearling Variable Kingsnakes
0.0.2 Yearling Western Massasaugas
1.1 Black Milksnakes
3.6 Honduran Milksnakes
1.3 Cornsnakes
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes
0.0.1 Baird's Ratsnake

Shes a Juno Rd animial. My brother and dad found her last June on the South S-curve, while I was walking the North one.
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South Texas Herps

I also own land in s. Brewster Co. on the Ranch, so I'll be there as much as time, work schedule and $$ permit. BTW has anyone tried to contact someone in TP&W that they "trust" for a no-BS assessment of the situation? I've seen Mr. Spears' name in here several times; I haven't met him but he seems like a straight shooter and possibly sympathetic to the cause.
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Bill Cope
O'Brien, FL

I'll be there in mid June, for sure. Ive been planning this trip for a little over a year now, and I think I have every paper on Coleonyx reticulatus that exists. I bought $2000 in camera gear so that I can photograph this trip, as I probably wont get a chance to go back any time soon. So now when we post a pic of a suboc or whatever on the road at night, we'll have to say "look what I flipped" because crusing is illegal now. :/

the road would also be illegal, as would walking looking for snakes.

which I obviously need a flashlight. And my pillow for camping with a few pillow cases because of my OCD with germs. Can't forget my "tarantula extraction tool" aka hook either. Yep, gonna go look for some "spiders" in June down there.

I'll be looking for the infamous Assetto Kielbasa. Not yet outlawed. Aaron and myself are the only ones to ever new one in the wild. Very secretive.
Only one photograph ever taken of one and I have it.

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Steve W.

Unfortunately if TP&WL chooses to enforce this law, a claim of ignorance won't be much help. I suggest that if ANYONE is ticketed for this, we ALL pitch in and fund the best damn attny that can be afforded and fight this BS all the way up the food chain. A herp "Legal Defense Fund" maybe? Afterall guys, if you are a texas resident and pay taxes, YOU own the roads and they just took away your right to use what your tax dollars purchased.
JP
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Snakes of Hudspeth County, Texas

>>Unfortunately if TP&WL chooses to enforce this law, a claim of ignorance won't be much help. I suggest that if ANYONE is ticketed for this, we ALL pitch in and fund the best damn attny that can be afforded and fight this BS all the way up the food chain. A herp "Legal Defense Fund" maybe? Afterall guys, if you are a texas resident and pay taxes, YOU own the roads and they just took away your right to use what your tax dollars purchased.
>>JP
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>> Snakes of Hudspeth County, Texas

>>Unfortunately if TP&WL chooses to enforce this law, a claim of ignorance won't be much help. I suggest that if ANYONE is ticketed for this, we ALL pitch in and fund the best damn attny that can be afforded and fight this BS all the way up the food chain. A herp "Legal Defense Fund" maybe? Afterall guys, if you are a texas resident and pay taxes, YOU own the roads and they just took away your right to use what your tax dollars purchased.
>>JP
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>> Snakes of Hudspeth County, Texas

They may not ticket texas residents as much as someone like myself who won't be in the state at the time a court date will be issued. In a case like that? Not too good for us.
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Steve W.

I have it from Aaron who spoke with someone in Hildebran's office that this won't go into effect until Sept 1 . . . and that even then that TPWD will start with an "education campaign" (e.g. not give tickets right away). Don't know if that was meant as placating Aaron or not.

I'll still go, but it may be time to start hunting more out of the way locales where warden interaction is unlikely (assuming that they actually enforce the thing).

I also spoke with someone today in TPWD Wildlife Diversity and he expressed disappointment with the "burden" that the legislature was placing on them (mostly in regards to HB 1309) - cause (at least in regards to 1309) they will be required to come up with the regulations to support the legislation.

Troy

Troy,

I think the original HB 2414 had language in it that provided that if it passed with a 3/4 favorable vote in both the House and Senate that it would become effetive immediately, but otherwise it would become effective on Sept 1st. I don't recall seeing that same language in HB 12. Sept 1st is when most new laws that are passed become effective unless they specifically specify otherwise.

As to TP&W, I don't think that the people in Wildlife Diversity have been our problem at all. It's been a small group of people in that other division of TP&W. Unfortunately, I don't see the Wildlife Diversity folks having enough clout to offset the views and opinions of the other group.
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Gerald Keown
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
www.southwesternherp.com

I plan on being there regardless. Anyone who shares the same passion for herping or mere enjoyment of just being in West Texas should not let this stop them.
Nathan Wells

This will not change my hunting one bit. I will walk my private land when I don't have kids with me. If I have any of my kids, I'll drive and walk cuts. I'll have my camera, light, hook and bags.

If stopped, I'll explain (100% truthfully) that I'm looking for herps (and other critters) to photograph. I'll also add that if I find any of particular interest, I will capture them for a daylight photoshoot and then release them back where I found them. Personally, I hope to be ticketed. As a non-collector, I would be a more sympathetic test case to challenge this crap.

My approach will be one of blatant civil disobedience. I will point out to LE that my actions have been outlawed and hand them a copy of the piece of crap law. I will then explain that I disagree with this particular law bacause of HOW it was passed, and will NOT obey it. I wont change my behavior or heed a warning. I will blatantly shine the next cut. I'll invite them to write whatever tickets they please or lock me up if they want. I will fight any penalty, and I wont pay a dime (other than my hunting license and defense costs -and I'll gladly accept any legal defense assistance). I will also run a recorder for the entire exchange.

Daryl Eby

That we should do this in numbers. As many as possible. Then somehow we can collectively defend all charged with a single defender and defense fund. I rather like the idea. Tiny gets the credit.

>>My approach will be one of blatant civil disobedience. I will point out to LE that my actions have been outlawed and hand them a copy of the piece of crap law. I will then explain that I disagree with this particular law bacause of HOW it was passed, and will NOT obey it. I wont change my behavior or heed a warning. I will blatantly shine the next cut. I'll invite them to write whatever tickets they please or lock me up if they want. I will fight any penalty, and I wont pay a dime (other than my hunting license and defense costs -and I'll gladly accept any legal defense assistance). I will also run a recorder for the entire exchange.
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>>Daryl Eby

Would it also be possible to request a jury trial?

I can see the headline: "Jury selection began today in the case of the Loma Alta Seven ..." One of the keys to this may be to keep reinforcing to Gov. Perry how underhanded the process was, especially how the rule designed to prevent such action was blatantly suspended within the rider's text!
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Bill Cope
O'Brien, FL

well the jury selection thing would slow the process quite a bit. Maybe show the ridiculousness of it all.

How many of us were out there hunting with the aid of a motor vehicle, hunting on roads, and hunting with artificial lights when those offenses were construed as illegal, just a few years ago? Uhhh, all of us?

Most of us were willingly disobeying that law. I don't see this new statute as any different except that it may have been targeted at us. It may be a tougher ticket to beat.

John H. makes a good point - If you come from out of state to herp the roadsides, why buy a hunting licences anymore? If you buy one and hunt the roadsides, it shows you had the intent to violate the law.

Lets all keep in mind one thing - this isn't TPWD's baby. I'm sure once the first ticket is handed out the loud anti-TPWD rhetoric will start again when in fact, they don't appear to want it. This wasn't their idea (conspiracy theories aside).
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Chris Harrison
San Antonio, Texas

>>Lets all keep in mind one thing - this isn't TPWD's baby. I'm sure once the first ticket is handed out the loud anti-TPWD rhetoric will start again when in fact, they don't appear to want it. This wasn't their idea (conspiracy theories aside).

We don't know that. Just because we have not found the link does not mean that are not behind it. When we get the correspondence through the freedom of information act we will be able to determine who besides Hilderbran is pushing this legislation.

>>How many of us were out there hunting with the aid of a motor vehicle, hunting on roads, and hunting with artificial lights when those offenses were construed as illegal, just a few years ago? Uhhh, all of us?
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>>Chris Harrison
>>San Antonio, Texas

The hunting and spotlighting from a vehicle was what they harrassed us about. Walking was ok. But now they took that too. Who knows, maybe this is just a step to another total shutdown. Again.
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Steve W.

>>Lets all keep in mind one thing - this isn't TPWD's baby. I'm sure once the first ticket is handed out the loud anti-TPWD rhetoric will start again when in fact, they don't appear to want it. This wasn't their idea (conspiracy theories aside).

Now we have confirmation that Major Sinclair is indeed behind Hilderbran on this. In all certainty Cervantes is the bug in Sinclair's ear. So in FACT it WAS their idea.

I am there June 7-?. At least 5 days, maybe 6.
Todd Hughes