Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, we all know a lot of newbies read these forums but don't post.
There is just too much bad info out there.
I would like to get a discussion going without the childish name calling that is found in other forums.

Now on to the subject, handling.
Yea, yea, I know it's been done a thousand times but how many newbies bother searching the archives?
Hell, I will even be willing to be the bad guy here and be pro handling. (which I am not)
I will be back tomorrow afternoon to see if this goes anywhere.
Please post your thoughts, be it for or against.

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

Handling really does not mean anything. You have to understand, its like all other aspects of husbandry, it can be done poorly or properly.

Poor handling is always wrong and proper handling is not bad for a monitor, hence the use of poor and proper.

With that in mind, of course its not recomended for a newbie to handle a monitor. They don't know how, or when, etc.

The continious repetitious posting of, I got my sav today, when do I begin handling it to tame it, is always going to lead to controversy. Cheers

Hey look, it's a $15 lizard!!! I have to get it!!! Who needs research!!!!

....a few days later

ummm my baby savy wont let me hold him and always tries to run and hide. so when and how do I start handling him?

Or another genius will come and say, I just got a sav today and he's really tame and will let me hold him no problem. He really likes me. So it's really easy to tame them. ( = Stressed out, half dead monitor unable to run away. )

I agree with your post above that there is a lot of bad info out there in the forums. I have talked to breeders (snake not monitors) who pop in and read them and are amaized by what people say and their advice. So, its hard to determine who is leading you correctly and who is not, especially when you have no experice.

As for handling, I also agree with poor and proper. From what I have been reading, Monitors are not going to be like a Bearded Dragon that just sits and chills with you. Is that correct statement. I would love to get an Argus. I think they are very neat looking, however this is why I have not joined the monitor game just yet. Not sure if I want somthing I can not take out and pick when I want to. But, I also know that each aminal is different, some say certain breed of dogs, snakes will never be calm and unpridictable, but then you find out its not the case. So, as you can see there is a huge struggle. If I need to clean the cage, I do not feel like getting tagged everytime, there is no fun in that and this is what most people look for when getting a lizard. The biggest problem is the ones that get the biggest are the cheapest.
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger
1.0 Amel Retic
0.1 Ball Python
0.1 Red Tail
0.1 Blood Python
1.0 Green Ananconda
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa

From what you said, you should not keep monitors. If you are worried about being tagged all the time and you do not understand how to avoid that, you should not keep them. Thats very simple and common sense.

Once you understand how to manage monitors and when to hold and when not to hold them. Or how to service a cage without getting tagged. Then you may think about getting a monitor.

Before you get something you should have the experience, and/or read enough to be thinking, I CAN DO THIS. YES, I CAN DO THAT I think I know what to expect and how to avoid harm to me or the monitor. Not how do I do that. See what I mean. The problem is, its always the monitor that suffers, not the keeper.

The keeper may suffer a nip on the finger, the monitor suffers with its life.

Of course this has nothing to do with what you want. Your a kid, you want everything. That does not mean you should have everything. Particularly when its ALL ABOUT the animals life. When you think you can improve these animals lifes, then maybe you may think about having them. Cheers

FR, I agree with your points, hence the reason I still have not bought one yet. However with so much crap out there, who is one to beleive. I know I am smart enough to know that some Pet shops have no clue, and vice versa and just because someone at the swap is selling them does not mean they understand or know how to take care of them. Sick animals seem tame. So, in your experince where is one to go for information. I google search the monitors I am intrested in and ask questions. Hence another reason I did not get a Water a few months back and have been holding off of a monitor all together. I actually was reading your post about how far they travel and how cruel it is for these guys. So thank you for the education. But the object of keeping an animal is to give it everything it needs with no stress. I am not afraid of getting tagged, I do not like it, but I also understand how much stress it puts the animal under. Trust me when I say I will not get a monitor until I am confident that I can give it the life it deserves.

But going back to the handling. Should there not be interaction outside of the cage? I am trying to understand. I have owned Iguanas, Bask, Water Dragons but I have seen no articals on monitor handling. Just am told wear gloves. I know I did not handle these lizards all that often. Took them out to clean, run the floor and let swim in the bath tub once in awhile, I assume this is the same.

Thanks for your help.

Jeff
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger
1.0 Amel Retic
0.1 Ball Python
0.1 Red Tail
0.1 Blood Python
1.0 Green Ananconda
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa

I do not believe anyone unless they can "SHOW" me that they are telling the truth. Even the PHD's babble about things they do not know and they do it a lot.

So, pretent your from from the Show me state, and ask for support in any form other then words.

As you already know, you can go to trade shows and everybody claims they breed monitors. Ask for pics or something to support that, and 99% cannot show supporting evidence. So I do not blame lots of folks for not understanding monitors, they keep asking the wrong people and getting the wrong advice.

I have always said, FIND someone doing what your want to do or as close as possible to that and go by their advice. Do not average out different types of husbandry etc etc. As most do not have successful husbandry. After you become successful, you and adjust or try other things. But at least, you should start of firm ground. Cheers

.....the opposite of "genius" isn't "ignorant." Even the smartest, brightest, individual can easily get sucked into an impulse buy.

While I firmly beleive that a lot of research should be done before purchasing any animal species, we have to take into consideration that at least some people care enough to come here to try to find out the right way to go about things. Even if it is after the purchase.

My nile was pretty much an impulse buy. I had a slight idea of their requirements but nowhere near the knowledge I needed. However, I'm a committer. My purchases are committments, and I keep my committments. I still have to fight off the occasional urge to buy things on impulse, though. Fortunately, my nile is the only impulse buy I have in my collection of 12 various reptiles and several other animal species. I can live with that.

Yes, I'm still learning about monitors. And I hope to keep onlearning about 'em till the die I die, not till the day they die.

Have a good one!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

So, doing my search on Argus monitor, this is what I find.

Cleaning and Handling

The terrarium should be cleaned as necessary. Any fecal matter or left over food should be cleaned out several times a week. The bedding should be completely changed once a month and fresh clean water should be provided at all times. The inside of the terrarium can be cleaned out with an appropriate reptile cage cleaner, we recommend Natural Chemistry’s Healthy Habitat. Argus monitors can be handled on a daily basis but may take some time to tame down. Always wash your hands before and after handling them.
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0.2 Rotts
1.0 Super Tiger
1.0 Amel Retic
0.1 Ball Python
0.1 Red Tail
0.1 Blood Python
1.0 Green Ananconda
1.0 Emerald Tree Boa

Oh, yeah, I know what you & "t3h0wnerer" meant and I agree with the points made. I was just saying that I don't think it has anything to do with whether the person is bright or a few bricks shy of a full load.

My reply wasn't meant to discredit the main point that ya'll made, not all, so please don't take offense to it.

I was trying to say that we can't label someone as a non-genius just because they don't know much or anything at all about the animal. Granted, we could actually carry that a step further and say that we can say they're not a genius because a smart person wouldn't buy something without knowing how to take care of it. That's why I mentioned impulse buys.

Nah, I know exactly where you're coming from, what you meant, I've seen far too many times, myself.

Catch ya later!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Yeah, you're right. I kinda got mixed up from seeing this guy on repticzone saying "I have a near genius IQ". He ignored EVERYTHING we said. His sav died like a week later. Like who would of thought of that.

Actually, its kinda funny in that those are probably the worst ones, the ones that are smart & know it and/or those that think they're smart but aren't. LOL!
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

The thing that really made me yell at him was that he didn't realize that he was wrong even after it died. You'd think he would figure it out by then but he still had his reasons. "oooooo the whole shipment was bad. all of the ones the pet shop got died because acid in their stomach burned holes in them." something like that.

I see now where you were coming from with your "genius" comment and agree. ("I see," says the blind man.)

Now, if we can only get blind newbies to see.

Have a good one!
HH
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Hey, I like controvesy, why else would I start a thread like this. hahahaha
Ok, I'm also bored.

Ok, now, me being pro handling.
I see all these pictures of these fat savs being walked on a leash.
This one person at the pet shop told me to hold it everyday until it stops squirming.
If it bites me, just use gloves next time and keep holding it.
I even read where if it hisses or tail whips you, to hold back on food and turn the lights and all heat off for a day.
This is supposed to calm them down and help taming.

Scott
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

You appear to have an agenda, so spit it out. hahahahahahahahahhahahaha Cheers

For the sake of debating, he's taking up for the bad side as if he actually believes in it in order to keep the debate going in hope of enticing the right answer for the world to see.

Please allow me to address his last post.

Let me try out my FR impersonation. This is how I think FR would've replied to this message about a year or so ago. He's softened up a tad since then, which I think is a good thing.

>Example ReplyEnd of Example Reply
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It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.