Reptile & Amphibian Forums

K so I was holding my peachthroat and I noticed a little blood by his mouth so I look at it and there was some coconut bark in his mouth, So I rinsed it out and I couldn't see where the blood was coming from. The next day I take a look at him and it gets worse...I don't get it. Also, he won't eat and he is starting to look skinny and suggestions? I'll post a picture later and maybe that will help. I need help on this cause I have no clue what to do for him and I don't want to lose him. Thanks Des

I'm making a few assumptions so if I'm out of line then my assumptions are wrong...no offense intended.

Based on your question and some imagination(my own) I'd say you should take the day and read this forum and the archives...that will get you started. No kidding if you read careful and cut through BS post "light bulbs" should start going off. This is in no means to insult you(people get real touchy about learning/inabilty to learn). Anyway there is outstanding stuff here...just listen to those who have had true success(if after reading you can't figure that out then a lizard is not for you).

And please do not shoot the messenger...but likely your lizard will die(??)an educated guess...what you take from the expirience will help you in determining if you have the ability to keep animals. cheers, big ears.

...to help your monitor, get it to a qualified Vet.

Please don't take offense to what I'm about to say, I'm not downing you in any way.

It sounds like you don't have the experience needed to safely remove any foreign objects that may be in its mouth, especially if you're unable to figure out what exactly is causing the bleeding.

Its best to have 2 people to expect such things. One to hold the animal's mouth open and one to do the inspection. Carefull attention has to be paid in order to prevent breaking teeth or hurting the animal in one of several other easy ways.

Since your monitor has noticeable weight loss already due to this, time is of the essence. Take it to a Vet.

Keep us updated, please.

Hang in there!
HH
-----
It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Bleeding gums has been regularly observed in several Indonesian varanid subfamilies, including Euprepiosaurus, and is not necessarily a sign of illness or 'imminent death' as other posters on this thread have claimed.

I have personally observed this in healthy specimens (ie. no stomatitis or other oral infection) of Varanus melinus, V. doreanus, V. indicus, and V. salvadorii. In the majority of instances, this has been observed shortly after a stressful event, such as having to restrain an animal for transport, or entering an animal's exhibit for cleaning/maintenance. This occurrence appears to be restricted to Indonesian varanids, as a survey on another varanid forum (varanus. nl) failed to report any such occurrences in African, Asian (mainland), or Australian varanids.

There were some excellent photos of this gum bleeding in I believe, V. doreanus, on another varanid forum (varanus. nl) which pinpointed the exact location and source of the gum bleeding. It has also been suspected that that this bleeding may be the result of normal, healthy teeth shedding, based on the origin of the bleeding (around/near the base of the teeth).

While bleeding from the gums/mouth may very well be a sign of sickness or illness (especially stomatitis), such an occurrence is also common among healthy Indonesian varanids, especially those within the subfamily which this individual's monitor belongs to (Euprepiosaurus). I suggest that before slamming this individual, telling him/her that it is sick or about to die, everyone should check out the thread pertaining to this occurrence over on varanus. nl, as it raises some interesting thoughts and ideas on this matter.

"Bleeding gums has been regularly observed in several Indonesian varanid subfamilies, including Euprepiosaurus, and is not necessarily a sign of illness or 'imminent death' as other posters on this thread have claimed."

Bleeding gums, lack of appetite, weight loss, it would seem the responsible thing to do would be take the animal to a vet. Where the heck did you get "imminent death" in any of the replies in this thread?

I've seen bleedig gums in peachies as well, and it is usually a sign of some sort of stress. To dismiss it as a normal part of their lives is irresponsible as the stres that is causing the bleeding could be related to illness or improper husbandry.

Thanks for saving me from having to post the same message, nearly word for word.

I owe ya one.

Catch ya later!
HH
-----
It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Thanks for the insight on bleeding mouths of Indonesian species, I wasn't aware of that.

> > >"...not necessarily a sign of illness or 'imminent death' as other posters on this thread have claimed."

"Time is of the essence" doesn't neccesarily mean 'imminent death.' I wasn't insinuating that, at all. I suppose, though, that it could be interpreted as that, but that's not what I meant.

> > >"I suggest that before slamming this individual, telling him/her that it is sick or about to die,..."

Please notice what I said at the beginning of my initial reply; "Please don't take offense to what I'm about to say, I'm not downing you in any way."

Since there aren't any hasty words above or below that statement, I feel that completely rules out "slamming."

Maybe I should've just ignored the "weight loss" comment and told the person that bleeding mouths are common in that species and not to worry about it.

If stress causes bleeding mouths, and there is significant weight loss involved, I'd venture to say that the animal is sick. Stress can cause illnesses and some people even view stress, itself, as an illness.

While your post was enlightening with the "bleeding mouth" point, I still think my "take it to a qualified Vet" is a better response. We cannot see what's causing the bleeding so I don't think its safe to assume anything. Who knows what else is wrong with this monitor that the owner isn't aware of or knows what to look for.

No, I'm not slamming you, either. I'm not in a position to slam anyone when it comes to monitors, given my little experience. And given my little experience, I probably shouldn't have posted a reply to this thread to begin with. I'll admit that and take the "slams" like a man that anyone wants to give me.

No beef on this end.

Have a good one!
HH
-----
It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

Who ever claimed its was leading to a quick death? Your really need to stop putting your own agenda in others posts. No one said, 'imminent death' Your making yourself very transparent.

Stress has many degrees from being nearly harmless to causing death. Its common sense that minor nearly harmless stresses can lead to more serious stress if left unchecked. It would clearly be helpful for a keeper to understand and have the ability to control those stresses.

Gum bleeding is one of the more obvious visual indications of stress, possibly minor, or not. BUT in this case coupled with lack of feeding, it COULD be serious. I would hope that you a "serious" keeper, would look into the situation if this happened to you.

The very point of the Poster asking about this is to seek advice TO POSSIBLY AVOID SERIOUS PROBLEMS. Don't get that? To ignore the whole situation, bleeding gums and lack of feeding, is VERY SERIOUS for a monitor in the hands of someone lacking advanced skills.

I will offer you some advice, try and help, not promote an enviornment of ignorance. Cheers

and what exactly would my 'agenda' be?

In one of the first two replies to this thread, it was written:

"And please do not shoot the messenger...but likely your lizard will die(??)an educated guess...what you take from the expirience will help you in determining if you have the ability to keep animals. cheers, big ears."

Is this not insinuating imminent death?

I do admit that upon reading the original post, I missed the 'not-feeding' comment. Regardless, the lack of feeding may very well be unrelated to the gum bleeding, especially given the well-documented history of this occurring regularly in healthy individuals of this taxa.

I felt that it would be of interest to other participants of this forum to know that bleeding from the gums/mouths has been documented and observed in healthy Indonesian varanids and was not necessarily a sign of illness, and even referred them to a particular post on another varanid forum which goes into more depth regarding this topic.

Please enlighten me as to what my "agenda" is. Perish the thought of somebody offering some information which others may not be aware of (that gum-bleeding is common in this group of monitors).

And lastly, how is sharing information with others, promoting an "environment of ignorance"?

Generalize gum bleeding is a direct sign of stress. Of course not feeding is a another telltail sign something is wrong.

That is all anyone can say, as there is nothing else to make any comments on. Cheers

SO FR- I took him out of his enviroment so clean the coconut bark out. and put him in a cage that is like a 20 long critter cage. so I can monitor him closer.... So should I put some more hiding spots in there for him to hide? I've been soaking him everyother day so help make sure he doesn't get dehyradited( sorry can't spell) And for food??? I breed my own rodents so I have plenty to work with, But I've tried just putting a pinky in the cage but there was no interest. Picture will be posted soon.
I also just noticed that he is getting a white spot on his eye? I've been reading the forum so I'm really trying!
Thanks Des

Hello Petlover44,
In this situation, where you cannot narrow things down yourself, please try to post a pic of the animal and the whole enclosure as well as the temporary enclosure as well. The more info, visual info that you can provide on this forum, the better your monitor will be helped. Another words, the problem may not be with the monitor, but likely, the monitor in the environment that you are providing. Let us see if you would... Best to you- Mike

For the record, Des, I don't think anyone here wants your monitor to die, or for you to fail. I believe that everyone that has posted in this thread has done so in an attempt to help you.

There is a lot of good information within these posts, and yes, there's also a little here & there that probably needs to be overlooked. Hopefully there's enough info here to help you make an informed decision as to what your next step should be. Ultimately, you are the only one at the moment in a position to make that call.

If for nothing else but to help other people, please keep us updated. Hopefully someone, including yourself, can/will learn from this experience.

Hang in there!
HH
-----
It is said that 1 out of every 4 people are mentally unbalanced. Think of your 3 closest friends, if they're normal, then it's you.

I kept this male for 17 years, it has always shown bleeding gums when annoyed. All my other jobi’s and Doreanus also do this, it don’t bother me.

Forgot jobi’s are quit nervous, avoid handling your monitor, my 17 year old has never allowed me to handle it, and iv respected this.
So if your goal is to turn it into a lap lizard, you may need to reconsider.

Jobiensis are shy nervous lizard.
Give him a good environment (no soaking), monitor you temperature, leave it alone and he should start eating in a week or 2.
Take care!

yes I agree!
if it dosent then a vet visite is in order.

The not eating, and other problems are what you are concerned with.
The gum bleeding is usually after a stressful event. A few friends of mine have had many Asian monitors of different species over the years. One had never noticed bleeding gums except when he had other probems and stressful handling occurred, one had it more frequently but his cages were not so well equipped or large. One animal that really bled regularly was a water monitor that puked up food(partially digested) if handled or just touched sometimes within a day or 2 of eating. One water monitor was sent to another keeper which had bleeding gums only if handled frequently or if in the same room (outside a cage) with a larger monitor lizard. Another Asian monitor (different species) only had bleeding gums if restrained or if handled a bit forceful.
To me these incidents always seemed like they were stress related. The one Asian monitor I kept showed stress in other ways (timor monitor), these problems healed rather quickly if he was just left alone for a few days, but he never had an appetite problem.